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Grafics SCHMAFICS! Displaying 1-13 of 13 total.
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TacticsM
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THis is a continuation of the thread started by omni earlier about the decline of VERGE. I recomend that anyone who is thinking about leaving the community, esspecially if it's for like the "I can't make a great battle system or super high quality grafics." It's there to put thigs in perspective. In short, your here to make a game. A game that is supposed to be fun, not only to play but to make. So grafics? WHo cares about that? As long as they are legible their okay bye me.
TacticsM, Defusing the bomb one post at a time...
Posted on 2002-01-07 20:36:51
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Wyrdwad
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I definitely agree with you, though my situation is a little... strange. I know I'm terrible at drawing, and thus I don't care if my game has terrible graphics (at first, anyway -- I want it to look DAMN GOOD at some point in the future, but that can wait until it's done for all I care)... but I also CAN'T make a good map unless I have all the tiles I need at my disposal (I hate taking time-outs to draw new tiles), and I just don't like the idea of using a pre-made generic tileset (which is probably what I'll do eventually -- I just need to keep reminding myself that it CAN be changed later). (: AND, when I draw tiles, they often don't really resemble much of anything... so I have to put a LOT of time and effort into even drawing simple, throwaway tiles that look kinda terrible.
That's why I'm so desparately searching for a tile artist. If I can find someone who'd be willing to help me by making tiles, I could create the maps I want much more quickly, because I'd have peace of mind. (:
But yeah, lately gamers seem really hung up on graphics. I've been frantically playing every RPG-like PS2 game I can get my hands on, and frankly, the rest of the world and I seem to have opposite tastes in games. Take ICO, for instance. Everyone seems to love this game, but I sold it to a friend of mine for $1. Why? Because although the graphics and sound are top-notch, the camera is TERRIBLE, the gameplay is extremely redundant, and Yorda is the single weakest and most annoying female lead ever to appear in any video game. (: Read my review of ICO on GameFAQs for more details about this. (:
Same thing with Final Fantasy X. I haven't gotten very far into it, but the good graphics haven't impressed me yet. The characters in FF10 seem absolutely terrible thus far -- one of the worst batches yet, right up there with the losers from FF8 -- and the story seems to be really forced and annoying. The sphere board system is intriguing, but overly complicated (I miss materia!!), and the music is some of the worst to grace any FF game yet (so far, anyway -- just listen to that crappy battle theme, or the even crappier boss theme!).
Then there's Okage: Shadow King. It has pretty awesome graphics, but let's face it, the PS2 can do better. The music isn't great, but it fits the game pretty well. And the battles aren't exactly new or groundbreaking, but they're easy to get the hang of, and the enemies seem perfectly adjusted to be REALLY hard without being TOO hard. Plus, the characters and story in Okage -- the most important parts of any RPG -- are absolutely top-notch. Rosalyn, the parasol-wielding main female character in Okage, is one of my new favorite RPG heroines, absolutely dripping with personality and uniqueness, and easily topping ANY of the characters from FF10 in terms of... well... pretty much everything! Plus, Okage is actually FUN TO PLAY -- the battles aren't too frequent, and they actually present a challenge (for a change), and the story keeps me wanting more.
Okage is the first RPG released since Final Fantasy 7 or Lunar 2 (or Popolocrois II in Japan) that has the "feeling" that I look for when I play video games (though "Dark Cloud" came pretty close, I must admit!), and it ended up being something of a flop in the U.S., receiving mediocre to bad reviews from virtually every source. It's really a shame that people have become so systematic in what they look for in games nowadays -- it's like people have forgotten what a good game IS, since there are so few of them anymore.
So I'll keep playing Okage and Dance Dance Revolution, and let FF10 sit around for a rainy day, I think. (:
-Tom
Posted on 2002-01-07 22:51:19
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Omni
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First, I don't expect my game to look any better. Similarly, I also have a major problem with pixel art. But anyway, moving on...
Since you just had to give a breakdown of your RPGs, I'll follow, just because...
ICO rocks. Not sure why.
FFX. Haven't played yet. Probably will. Won't like it for the storyline or the graphics, but maybe the character development.
FFIX. I hated this game. Everything feels recycled. I mean, you all have rights to your opinions, but it wasn't my favorite.
Okage. Looks scary.
Lunar, FF7 & FF8 rock. Why? I just like the game. It doesn't matter how bad the graphics are (like Lunar 1/2) or the annoying, repetitive battles (like FF8). I play it for the storyline. I can play any good RPG if I either: a. Like the storyline, or b. Like the gameplay. Lunar has both, with the exception of graphics. I would love to create something like that. That you would play for the storyline. If the battlesystem comes out well, that doesn't define it, it's just an additional plus. I never considered Verge for the best graphics. I could get PS2 RPG School 5 for that, I guess. But I do want to make as cool a Verge RPG as I can. And if I can add good pixel art, that's just an additional plus.
Posted on 2002-01-08 06:27:44
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Wyrdwad
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I understand the rest of your points, but I just don't get why people liked FF8. The story in FF8 was *TERRIBLE*... there were more plot holes than there are REGULAR holes in swiss cheese! And the character development just WASN'T THERE... I mean, why were Squall and Rinoa in love? I'm all for love at first sight and all, but the only thing they had in common was their complete LACK of personality!! And then there's Irvine and Zell, who have NEGATIVE personality... and Quistis, who's just annoying. If it weren't for Selphie and Laguna (the only cool characters in the whole game) I wouldn't have made it as far as I did... and I still gave up on the game eventually, and just watched OTHER people play it through to the end.
But yeah... not to be annoying or anything. I know a lot of people liked it... but I REALLY didn't. But then again, I didn't like The Matrix either (and I'm equally baffled as to why other people DID), so I guess I'm just out of touch with the rest of the world. (:
As for FF9, it WAS recycled, but it still had a really good story and really cool characters (Vivi and Eiko are in my upper echelon of cool RPG characters now, I think -- and I REALLY wanted those two to get together by the end!).
I definitely agree about FF7 and Lunar, though... those are some SERIOUSLY awesome games. If you can read/understand any Japanese (even a little bit), I HIGHLY recommend the Popolocrois games. They rank among the best RPGs I've ever played, in virtually ALL respects (wonderful story, awesome characters, very in-depth storybook-like world, and even really good graphics -- that are all hand-drawn sprites, I might add!). I actually just went on a hunt-and-seek mission last night to track down the Popolocrois 3 demo disc for PS2 that I heard was released, and my mission was accomplished... and I'm VERY excited about Popolo3 coming out in March now. (:
-Tom
Posted on 2002-01-09 00:51:00
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TacticsM
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FFX rocks, I don't know where you go saying the music is bad nor the characers are mad nor the plot is bad. I love the game.
FFIX... I liked it it was fun the first time though, but it was entirely recycled, right down to the plot and characters and it had REALLY slow battles that happened way to often...
FF8...hated it, no plot, terrible character development and really annoying forced lookiing grafics...
ff4,6,7: GREAT FRICKEN GAMES! NOW THATS WHAT I"M TALKIN ABOUT... ANy way, great character developmene, classic plots and interesting villains. wasn't to happy about the materea system (every one is the same except for limit breaks) but 7 was still a great game.
ff5: not super great but good enough, fun to play, one of the few challenging square soft games and the class system rocked.
Chrono Trigger... Need I say more? The game is one of the best games out there.
Again, more grafivcs less game, with the exception of final fantasy 10, which I love, they got worse with grafics
I mean look, Lunar, Lunar 2, Xenogears, Final Fantasdy Tactics. all really great games... then came ff8 and EVERYTHING went to hell, well, square did any way... Chrono cross was fun, but nothing to chrono trigger.
My point is, most of the best games had the crappy grafics. SO what do grafics matter? not much. And for people who can't draw very well, you don't have to. We all remember the games where the clock was the same sizer as your people and all items were in treasure chests for lack of anywhere else to put them... SO whats your point? We loved those games moere then the new ones! So again, GRAFICS SCHMAFICS! Make a game, not a movie... If I wanted a movie I'd go the easier way and rent one, as for games... MAke them, put your heart into them, and guess what, we'll play them. My response to grafics? Play FF1, after that you'll get what I mean perfectly, if not, then go pplay your PS2as like all the other new school RPG players and get the hell out of here. Cause I can tell you, VERGE was not designed for 3d grafics nor for incredibly hugely great ones, just enough to make the game playable, and possibly a little more... Besides! In the end, it's just a game. Games should be fun, to design, make and play. Grafics cab't fix that, and I wouldn't want them too... (Music should be good though, I cvan't get into a game with out good music...) that said, lets gat back to making games shall we!?
"Life is like a box of chocolates, you eat a whole box and you get sick." -Forest Stump, The Sound of Walden, my sixth grade play...
Posted on 2002-01-09 00:59:32
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TacticsM
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um... I said no text...
Posted on 2002-01-09 01:14:50
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Omni
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Posted on 2002-01-09 14:54:23
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Omni
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I never said FFX was bad. FFIX had good characters(Vivi comes to mind, not sure why) and an interesting story, and okay music, but I preferred other RPGs to it. I don't understand why people hate FF8. I mean, I personally preferred it. But then again, I don't prefer FFIX while others do, so I guess I'm just weird.
Posted on 2002-01-09 14:56:13
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Wyrdwad
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.
Posted on 2002-01-09 16:13:15
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Omni
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Thought Popolocrois was the Japanese Lunar. Ah, well. Lunar 3. PS2. It is coming.
Posted on 2002-01-09 19:52:38
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Wyrdwad
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No, Popolocrois is BETTER than Lunar (and I'm a Lunar fan, so yes, I'm aware of what a grand statement that is!). (: As soon as I can get it posted (why does the VERGE board stop me from posting new threads most of the time?), I'll give you guys more info on it. In the meantime, check out of my review of Popolocrois II at GameFAQs.com. (:
-Tom
Posted on 2002-01-09 21:09:39
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Ulver
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graphics don’t matter? then what are us RPG loving but programming impaired artists to do? or those who love to create worlds down to the tiniest detail and make them nice and pretty? I love atmosphere, and while music can do a lot, art does more. people are more visual creatures, some more than others. i love to be pulled into a new world, and pretty graphics help. not necessarily 3D graphics... Most 3D RPGs I’ve played I have hated. but I don’t agree with this whole screw pretty graphics thing. find an artist if your not good at art. there are plenty artists who are looking for programmers.
or learn to do pixel art. i wasnt born able to do what i can do now. its probably easier than learning to program. that stuff makes me head hurt.
yeah games back then were good even with poopy graphics because it was a new thing and there wasnt much power to work with. and sure today you can make a good game without great graphics but why deny yourself something good? you can make a good movie with black and white film but often times color adds a whole new layer of goodness to the work.
-Ulver
aka Locrian
Creator of Sheolwulf
http://www.geocities.com/sheolwulf
Posted on 2002-01-10 00:26:13
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Wyrdwad
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Well, I didn't just RANDOMLY hate the game, so I figure, I'll go into some detail here. Is this on-topic? Sure! It shows all of the newbies on this board what NOT to do when making an RPG! (:
If a particular paragraph has a spoiler in it, it will be marked as such.
To begin with... ****SPOILER**** the game's major plot twist was one of the most contrived, unlikely, ridiculous things I've ever heard. I mean, come on -- "hey, you know what? We all grew up together! But because of GFs, we all forgot!" Irvine: "Not me! I remembered... I just didn't want to say anything." ... I mean, FF7's plot twists actually MADE SENSE, if you thought about them... as did MOST of FF9's (minus the final boss and ending, which came out of the blue and seemed VERY forced)... but this... THIS is just ridiculous! First of all, why is it that everyone would've forgotten the EXACT SAME THING? Secondly, why is it that Irvine WOULDN'T have said anything? In FF7, Tifa didn't say anything when Cloud recounted his story because she was concerned for his mental health... but in FF8, Irvine has NO REASON WHATSOEVER to not say anything. And lastly, how is it that all of these characters just so happened to find each other again?? It all adds up to one heck of a contrived, TERRIBLE plot twist.
Secondly... ****SPOILER from the beginning of the game**** the characters in FF8 are pretty dang stupid. When attempting to kidnap the president of a company, did they use force against the president's TWO INEPT GUARDS who DON'T LIKE HIM ANYWAY? Nope! Instead, they concocted the most ridiculous scheme I've ever heard of. "Hey, let's build an exact replica of the president's train car, as well as an exact replica of the president himself, then stealthfully SWITCH TRAIN CARS (defying physics in the process, I might add!)." I really don't think I need to say anything more on this matter. (:
Thirdly, the characters in FF8 were very... flat. Squall was basically a jerk who seemed like a wannabe-Cloud with needless angst. Seifer was a poor rip-off of Sephiroth, pure and simple (as was Kuja in FF9, but at least Kuja came closer to the original formula that made Sephiroth what he was in the first place!). Zell was just a dork (though at least he felt like a PERSON), and Irvine had no personality. And Quistis, while OK, was a bit of a prude. And then there's Rinoa... for a game's love interest, she sure doesn't have much going for her beyond the looks, now, does she! (: FF7's romantic overtones were very subtle, but definitely there -- Cloud's developing attraction for Aeris, who was attracted to him from the beginning, and the childhood friendship, a bond of trust, between Cloud and Tifa that eventually culminated, off-camera, into something more. And FF9's relationship between Zidane and Garnet was just plain ADORABLE, and probably the best job Square has ever done of depicting an obvious love between two characters. But Squall and Rinoa just kind of... DECIDE that they're in love. I'm not even really sure why!
On a personal note, I didn't particularly like the more realistic art style of FF8 (I much preferred the SD anime art style of FF9), nor did I care for the music (in context, anyway -- all of the tracks are good, but they just didn't FIT into the game very well, with the sole exceptions of every battle and boss theme, especially the main battle theme and Laguna's).
And finally, the actual GAMEPLAY in FF8. I think we can all agree that the GF system was overly complicated, and drawing magic was extremely boring and frustrating. If we're lucky, Square will NEVER AGAIN reuse this terrible, terrible battle system. (:
FF8 wasn't a complete waste for me, though... I liked Selphie, I liked Laguna and his goofy sidekicks (Laguna's story arc is what kept me interested for as long as I was), and I LOVED the ending (FF8's ending saved the game for me, I think).
And I got a little addicted to Triple Triad, until I lost my rarest card after having not saved for a while. (:
But that's ALL I liked. (:
Anyway, these are all just my opinions... just thought I'd share. (:
Ciao!
-Tom
Posted on 2002-01-10 20:11:02
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Displaying 1-13 of 13 total.
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