It hit me, even though noone is making demos, everyone wants demos to be made, which makes me think of afew things, the first one, I can't make characters, or program very well at all, I can't track worth the shit, BUT I am good at story writting, I can throw down a plot from any angle, and proof read, and all that other stuff, I'm not going to say thats all I can do, but thats all I have seen myself do without stressing out, I can take a half finished story, and finish it, I can even take a dead block of story (one that is going nowhere) and change it for the better.
That is what I am good at, sure its not much, but I am 1/6th of the game making problem, some of you don't have an original story line bone in your body, but can program a whole (damned good) Battle System in less then 4 hours, if that person and myself got together, 2/6th of the game is ready to go, all we would have to do is get a character artist, 2 tile makers (one for world map, one for city maps), and someone to make music, and we are pretty ready...
It sounds simple, but heres what everyone thinks
:::"I need a Dev Team":::
Meaning that those few people will be stuck together until the game is done, which is atleast a 3 week realationship, by then everyone starts getting all anal about someone being a slacker, and then 'the head person' which the person making the code usually thinks they are, says "FINE, I'm not doing this" and then the plot person has a story but nothing to do with it, so they lock it up in their 'my documents' and forget about it, so the tile artists say "great, now we don't know what the tiles are suposed to look like, because we don't know the story" and the character artist follow them, simply because their one of the only people left that have faith in the project, and the music maker usually makes the music, and finds out last that the project was dumped, and thats the end of it...
But as you can see, 2 or 3 people always do their part, or atleast half of it, before all hell breaks lose, all they need to finish it is find a replacement, but everyones on rebound by then, so each of them go through 3 packs of smokes a 5th of takilia (hee hee or Vomka) and 4 replacements later, everyones on a 2 week binge in tahoe and wake up next to abunch of people you feel you don't know, and your ass hurts....
My solution to this is that we all make one game, it sounds odd, and hard as all hell to pull off, I would explain more, but I am making a site about my idea right now, where overly bored people who want to do a small side of my project can come to, check out all the stuff I'm doing, and see what I'm not, they can start working on some stuff needed for the game if they want, but they will not have to finish it, if they only make alittle bit of code, send it in, you will be on the credits for it, its a pretty easy idea, I'm not expecting my game to be done anytime soon, so noone else should expect the same, I will keep everyone up on this idea, and when I am done with my site, I will post the url.

and 2nd of all, Verge sucks, and Ika sucks, and programming sucks, but we all know that by now, Verge and ika suck for the same reason programming sucks, because its alot of typing, alot of shooting in the dark to make something that might not come out the way you want it, its a pain, and to make it even harder, theres about 80 differant Verge's out there, and of course only one ika, but it is still getting alot of bugs worked out, so why are we all working on games in verge, well for one, its a object oriented programming system, that lets you make games, and only games, and the other, which brought me to the scene, was that it is FREE, you pay nothing, unlike all the other systems out there that cost anywhere from $20 (liberty Basic) to $1500 (3d Game studio) and even beyond that.
I like working on performance cars, which by itself is a $300+ a month hobby, I don't have alot of money to spare for something that I'm not really going anywhere with, I'm not going to school as a programmer, I'm going to goto school as a mechanic, not the ones that charge $80 and hour to slap a grey batman spoiler on the back of a multi color Honda 'sports car' I want to be the guy that put the Borla exhuast system on the 1933 Vicky, or the 1967 Firebird, and I need to save up for that, so I came here to get a free programming system, and I did, and for almost 3 1/2 years I have done nothing with it because, such as I said before, I cant program, and in all honesty, I would really be bored if I could.
Now Verge and Ika, and all the version, and Unversions in between the 2 have bugs, they may not work, but I have never spent a dime on it, and I have learned alot, thats all I need to to know to continue using it, because unlike 3d studio max, and all the high ranking, costly game makers out there, we all know eachothers names, and we have our chat rooms in mIRC, and its all pretty laid back, no pressure, noones really showing anyone else up, and for 3 1/2 years, I've done little less then nothing in this community, and noone has ever acted better then me (minus Tatsumi, but hes just hiding the fact that he is a nice guy) and noone ever said shut up (minus Tatsumi, but it was only because he was struggling to pull his head out of his ass, and I was distracting him) :-)

Don't make demos, don't make games, just make something good, even if its a small snippit of code, someone will beable to use it.

+=-KarmaCult-=+

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Is there anyway to change the email address conected to my name? I lost the silo1.com web space, so I no longer have that email adress. Email me at pretty_bondage_boy@yahoo.com, Don't poke fun, I've had the address for 3 years, and I know where you live

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"I am not making working on verge again with that in mind. I am working on verge because _I_ enjoy it"
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You know, thats seriously refreshing, all I'm saying is that there are some seriously good tank workers out there that can do everything without anyone else, and finish up before dinner, and then theres everyone else, and I just figured it would be nice if we all went back to the whole 'helping' thing we had going on the temp board, I know we have a help board here, but its sectioned off from the general board (probably for a good reason or two) but I remember back on the temp board we were able to go OT all the time, and still get work done, and everyone was acting their age, if people had life problems, they posted it, if people thought of a funny joke they posted it, and if they thought of a kick ass code, they posted it, and when verge-rpg.com was remodeled, and the vergesource fixed its login bug (I know I'm not the only one not able to log in for almost ayear ;-) ) everyone sorta dropped the whole "be yourself" thing, and know its mostly just pure verge conversation on every board, I know that is what this board is for, but its just not as personal as before, every thread says something about making demos (mine included) or how verge is dying, or something to that effect, what happened to the art posts, and the stupid annoying newbies that knew nothing better then to get on everyone elses nerve, wheres the flaming, the laughing, and the stupid, not completely thought out, horribly spelled threads that have almost nothing to do with making a game but everything to do with verge.

Verge isn't a bad program, when it was first released, everyone that used it were happy, when I came into the whole mix of it, everyone was pro Verge, nothing has happened to the original Verge 1 or 2, so it can't be the program, its the people and how they look at the program, you get maybe 5 .exe's and afew meager tutorials to begin with, the programs have no fancy icons, no cool names, and there no real way of sorting through it all in a day. its a brutal situation, but when I first downloaded it, I spent 6 hours printing up all the tutorials and all the docs and helps and whatever you want to call them, and I punched holes in them, and I made a book out of all of it, I took it to work, on vacation, everywhere, and I read the whole thing, I busted my balls learning, and every problem I had, I knew where to go, and who to talk to, I never felt all that seperated from everyone else, the mIRC rooms were always going on about something, and the boards were always filled with colorful things to read, somewhere from there to now, it changed, all of our artists left, all of our colorful people grew up, and everyone looks at the big guys who work in computer companies, and in big corp. buildings, and they notice that they are talking to them, and its a wierd feeling, and so the lot of us try our hardest to get on everyones good side, and grow up, acting like they know what their doing, and blaw blaw blaw, and it eventually strangled the life out of it.

to put it simply, Verge is in no way worse off then it was when it was first released, the only thing differant is everyone thinks you have to act like a programmer to be one.

god, I'm just full of babble and BS today :-)

+=-KarmaCult-=+

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Is there anyway to change the email address conected to my name? I lost the silo1.com web space, so I no longer have that email adress. Email me at pretty_bondage_boy@yahoo.com, Don't poke fun, I've had the address for 3 years, and I know where you live

...VERGE is about 8,000,000% better than that crappy "RPG Maker" game for PlayStation... ugh, what a piece of crap that game is! (:

-Tom

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Omni and KarmaCult have definitely brought up some good points, and I think KarmaCult especially hit the nail right on the head.

If we are striving for perfection, we're not gonna achieve our goals. At least, not alone.

So, we need to either (A) set our sights lower, or (B)... band together!

And personally, I think option B would be awesome... imagine an RPG developed and improved upon by the entire VERGE community! We may not be able to make a game with the greatest of graphics, or music, or the best plot, if we work by ourselves... but together, WE CAN!!

So I have a proposition.

I propose that we all try to work together on one big project.

Not abandon our own little projects, but just... add to them. (:

Ahem... uhhh, no, there's no ulterior motive here... ... so, anyone good at tile art? I'll tackle story, character designs, programming, dialogue, and mapping... heheheheheh... (:

...

Yes, that was a thinly veiled third attempt to get help for Forgotten Kings, but hey, ya' can't blame me for trying! (: Not that I'll be working on it at my maximum potential anyway, at least not for a while... still addicted to Okage: Shadow King, which definitely blows FF10 out of the water entirely. (:

-Tom

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v-rpg has quite a bit of suck going around... A makeover wouldn't hurt a bit.

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To each man/woman/transexual/transvestite/hermaphrodite/neuter, his/her/(his/her)/(his/her)/it's/it's own.