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A Verge vs. SNES question Displaying 1-10 of 10 total.
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Technetium
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It seems that, for the most part, the changes from the old days of Verge 1 through to Verge 3 have been bringing the engine closer and closer to capabilities of the SNES.
What I want to know (from someone who knows the technical aspects of the SNES and is not just guessing) is, does the SNES allow for tile layers to be displayed using subscreen addition, or does it only do that with sprites? I noticed a lot of the lighting effects in more advanced SNES games like Chronotrigger and FF6 have what appear to be additively-displayed tile graphics, but on the other hand they could just be blitting sprites based on the x/y coordinates for where the screen is on the map (I use the same workaround in Phobos Project).
Just curious, really.
Posted on 2005-06-28 14:14:50
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mcgrue
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Lina, are you out there to answer this?
Posted on 2005-06-28 16:06:54
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Omni
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I think I recall someone saying that SNES graphics use 256-colors, but it can blend the individual layers additively or subtractively in the framebuffer, yes.
Oh, yeah, technical knowledge. I did read some documents on it and I do recall 256-color graphics. (though perhaps the SNES handled multiple graphics modes...that I cannot remember. I remember limited palettes on sprites (256), and on layers.)
I have an idea for a library that lets you do a ton of nifty stuff like that, but unfortunately I'm lazy and I'm still trying to beat Sly Cooper.
Posted on 2005-06-28 16:44:37 (last edited on 2005-06-28 16:46:30)
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yhnmzwcs
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I am no expert on the workings of the SNES, but I think I can answer this question. I think that map layers CAN be made to be transparent. (Technically, I can only answer for what the GIMP calls 'overlay'-type transparency.) I can offer a demonstration of this fact, so you can check wherever you are. Get out ZSNES... Find a ROM with the effect you want. I can think of Zelda 3 (in the forest) and Radical Dreamers (rare, unusual, worth examining). I don't know if that's the same effect, though. Flip the map layers on and off, and you should see that it's a MAP layer that is transparent.
I should explain why I'm calling it 'overlay'. I took a snapshot in ZSNES with Radical Dreamers, and because I couldn't get the right layer alone, I got the filtered image and the filter layer alone as snapshots. I the GIMP, I made a negative of the filter alone, and put that layer above, with 100 percent opacity and 'Overlay' mode (not normal or additive), and got the filter removed entirely. Go do some experiments and tell about the results. I think I may have answered your question, somewhrere in there.
Posted on 2005-06-28 16:52:18
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Technetium
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Quote:Originally posted by yhnmzwcsGet out ZSNES... Find a ROM with the effect you want. I can think of Zelda 3 (in the forest) and Radical Dreamers (rare, unusual, worth examining). I don't know if that's the same effect, though. Flip the map layers on and off, and you should see that it's a MAP layer that is transparent.
Duh, why did I not think of that?
The effect I was thinking of is actually more like in Chronotrigger how a lot of the windows and cavern entrances have light streaming in through them. The edges of the light are fainter than the center, which indicates that it is not using a basic transparency blend, but either subscreen addition or alpha channels (and I don't think the SNES does alpha channels).
Anyways, I shall go find out now. But while we are on the subject, I wonder if there will ever be an option in Maped to set transparency modes for map layers so they can use something besides standard translucency.
Posted on 2005-06-28 18:52:45 (last edited on 2005-06-28 18:53:07)
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Gayo
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Additive/subtractive layers would be sexy. I suppose you'd need to make a whole new set of tiles for them, but you could reuse them on different maps so it'd be awesome, especially if this multiple-tilesets pipe dream of Grue's ever comes true.
Posted on 2005-06-28 21:04:18
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JL
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The SNES does not support alpha blending between layers, unless you consider 0% (the 'clear' color) and 100% to be alpha blending. However, the SNES does allow additive and subtractive blends between layers, as well as 'half'-additive and -subtractive blends. Additive/subtractive blending is why 16-bit graphics are needed in SNES emulators; if the SNES didn't have these blending modes, 256-color graphics would be sufficient.
Posted on 2005-06-30 17:58:21
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Linachan
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Aww finally a post I could answer and look semi-intelligent.
Unfortunately for me yhnmzwcs and JL answered prety much everything. I guess I'll have to wait another 8 years for this chance!
Hugs, Lina
Posted on 2005-07-01 12:13:34
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yhnmzwcs
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Lina, don't feel bad. Maybe you could express it better than us. I started typing before Omni submitted his post, and mine ended up after his. (Don't forget Omni, now.) To add to mine, I think that the effect in RD is the 'half'-additive blit that JL described, because it does seem to fade back and forth. ALSO, LET ME MAKE AN UNAMBIGUOUS ENDORSEMENT OF Radical Dreamers.
Posted on 2005-07-02 15:46:15
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Omni
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NO! I AM FORGOTTEN!
*explodes
Posted on 2005-07-02 16:55:33
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Displaying 1-10 of 10 total.
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