Hash tables and such are probably pretty hardcore for the average verge user. Umm, I don't think verge has pointer access. I could be mistaken, though.

Heh.

You have to go a little further back than PHP, my young friend. Associative Arrays ("hashes") are from the PERL era, which is likely why they show up in PHP also.

Actually, most of my experience with hashes are from LPC, the c-like language for lpmud development.

Perhaps there is some misunderstanding of what I'm talking about. I'm simply talking about an "array" that you address with strings rather than ints. It's really quite common, and not terribly complex.

Here... this might help: http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlintro.html#Perl-variable-types

PHP is wonderful for front-end work, but it sucks at everything else. You must think I'm a moron if you think I'd suggest using PHP anywhere but on a lightweight website.

Just for the record, I started programming "publicly" (on the MUDs and more) in the late 80s. I've been doing server-side scripting for over 10 years, and "on-the-side" game development for about the same. I have a degree in computer science, "programming concentration", and I know a thing or two about large-scale professional software development, having worked in the industry for the past 8 years.

Though I sometimes ask moronic questions, that's mostly because VC is anything but strict C. It's almost C-like, but with things like the string type (a good thing), no pointers (a good thing) and quirky little "side-effects" like how you can't initialize an array in a function (err... no comment), it's not really even that close. It has a c-like syntax, and that's nice, but so does PERL, and even your PHP... but it's hard to call those "c-like". I love the idea of VERGE and VC, and I think it's moving along great! But don't think that because I ask simplistic questions that I don't know anything about development.

Besides... why would it be so hard to implement hashes? Are you guys, like, writing the language?

-lok

EDIT: forgive me. I'm doing my taxes.

Umm, I don't think verge has pointer access.

V2 and V3 both have DMA abilities... but you need to be pretty hardcore to use them.

Warning! I'm still working on my taxes... haha!

The wisdom of incremental improvements is very sound and well established. v3 is already miles beyond v2, and I am extremely happy with it, and what you have described as the future. Good plan, mate.

I have another one (which we discussed briefly before) that I'd like to add to the list of potential future additions:

{} access to arrays. Earlier today I was filling out a multi-dim array data for a skill system, and I ended up with over 1000 lines in about an hour. Granted, I could have crammed 2 or 3 elements per line, but it would have been nice to assign all 10 values in one line. Keeps things nice and easy to read.

Just a thought.

Beware the Tax Man, and keep it up, v. v3 is a whole lot better than "good enough." ;)

-locke

You know, I thought about doing something like that, but it seemed like it would end up being just about the same amount of work. And there's just something elegant about:

skill_data[0] = { 1,4,4,4,1,2,7,8,9,4,5,7,10; }
skill_data[2] = { 2,5,5,5,2,3,8,9,10,5,3,3,9; }
... etc.

But in the interem, I think I will try to do it with a file. What the heck? Maybe I can write an app to help build out the actual data, and dump it to data files. Hmm... now there's a thought. A content creation tool to use with a game made with a construction kit. I love it.

-lok

An interesting question.

I suppose that speaks to how high the bar is for VERGE. Perhaps more specifically, how high the bar is for your intended usership...?

I believe that tools that assist in content creation are valuable. People shouldn't have to touch raw-data. On the other hand, if we are expecting someone to write a function to read in the data, then they must be able to understand the format of the data itself.

Perhaps a data entry/editing tool in this case is really only valuable as a time-saver, and not so much as a means of lowering the barrier of entry...? That is, unless someone wrote a VC library to manipulate the data, and included the tool that formats the data for the functions in the library. But again, it seems to me that if you are using data files in your game, you should probably know something about the data and how it's formatted.

I can, however, envision a time when there are a series of content creation tools that linger as "add-ons" to the main MAPED, that edit things like: conversation data, item data, monster data, etc.. and then VERGE becomes RPGMaker.

Which isn't such a terrible thing... no? There's nothing wrong with lowering the bar to allow more people in. I might even suggest that this lowering of the bar should be one of the primary goals of this project... and I already know it is, so I think we're on solid ground here.

Would it be possible to include an "add-on" API for MAPED? The only reason being convenience (not having to use a seperate app for your data manipulation).

Ohh dear.. then we should start talking about standardized datafile formats, and possibly binary data storage. AH!

-lok

A long time ago for v2 (when I was coding the Diver Down engine) FireWarrior made a text editor app for monsters. The program would open a standard Windows window, and you could click 'new monster' and fill in the fields for its stats and such. This app would then generate a text file that his v2 proggy would read in.

It's a great idea for the long run of making an actual rpg, and I almost did it myself (since I used text files for items, monsters, party members, skills, special attacks, etc.). I decided to can the release of the PURGE kit as a v2 rpgmaker, and never made these.

Oh, also, 'hashes' dont necessarily mean string-based lookup. It simply means that you have a hash for every 'key' and thats whats used for sorting, etc. The key itself could be anything, really. It just has to be something that will give you a hash. Trivial, but I thought I'd point that out. ;p

You could write a hash table in v2/v3, but the syntax and functionality would make babies and nuns weep openly.

For the record, I just now finished my taxes.

All the input is great, and actually that last message from Raiden makes me think... would be great to have some basic database hooks. But, actually, some generic networking support would be fine. I'm thinking: downloadable updates, downloadable content, an online "ladder" for games that find that useful, etc. Could have some fun with that.

I still think associative arrays are a good thing (tm).

I haven't worked on a vc file in a few days... I'm starting to feel the pangs of designer withdrawl. I think I'll go have a whiskey.

-lok