Trimods!
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zaril

What's the next best thing to releasing a demo or full game? Sharing information about your game! Something I hope many will do, because not only is it inspiring, but it shows just how alive our community is to those who think it's a bit on the dead side.

So, what are Trimods you ask? It's actually a dumb name for my 'growth-rate expectancy system' which is basically built up by triangles since there are no satisfying exponential calculations to fill my needs!

What I need is some way of knowing the answer to the question 'How much do the character's Strength raise with the next level and how will I keep it under control so that it doesn't hit too large or too small numbers in the end-levels?' and also 'What if I need to spawn a Blob which is instead of Level 1, say Level 50? Since it has unique stat comparison rates to his other stats, maybe being more tough than strong, will I have to create a new mob for each Level?'

The answer is 'No!', of course! I want to be able to easily calculate what strength this Level 50 Blob has in a snap and if I want to I'll add a modifier on top of that!

I thought, and thought, and thought. 'I could just jot down the numbers for each Level, nah. I could perhaps jot down numbers and let more than one monster use them... yeah! But, what if I'm wrong, and I need to start changing values around. Guh.. tedious.'

That's when Einstein came into my room and started cussing at me in German, and I thought up Trimods!

They look like, and work like triangles, but they could be seen as lines with Min and Max coordinate, but as you know trigonometry is a lovely tool and I use it, thus the name Tri, and Mods come from the fact that I'm modifying values for different needs. Trimods!

Two screenshots, this first is a glance before edited.






A few presses on the Left and Up buttons and I've moved one of the Trimods in the Trimod Serie that will aid me to get the value I need to work with.

The editor will make it simple to edit Trimods to your need, Load and Save Trimod Series and another good thing is, you get to reuse Trimods by reference. So, say I've made a Trimod Serie that increases slowly and one which increases quickly. I could associate the quick growth Trimod with the character's Strength and Stamina, however since he's not so bright I'll associate his Intellect and Wisdom with the slow growth Trimod.

This way I could get away with three-four Trimod Series for all my characters and monsters in the game, but the option to create many more is of course there.

What do you think of Trimods? I'm thinking of maybe making the script clean and public for people to utilize the 'Trimod system'. Comment!

Posted on 2004-09-11 12:19:36 (last edited on 2004-09-11 12:24:18)

Sungam

I won't say a word about the math, because I don't understand any of it. Can't remember a word of what math they taught me in school.

However! The whole stat-growth problem has been pestering me on numerous occassions, too, and any solution I came up with always seemed half-assed. If you have indeed found a good method for it - and even supply a fancy GUI... Hail and Glory to you, I say ;)

I, for one, would very much like to see a release of this. Sounds like a very useful tool for a part of RPG creation that I expect many overlook for the longest time. Having more utilities like this, for various tasks, would be pretty neat.

Posted on 2004-09-11 14:07:53

Gayo

You know you're crazy.

Posted on 2004-09-11 18:11:20

mcgrue

Interesting... I wouldn't mind seeing the code for both the UI and for the statcalculation. Does it generate flat files based on the data, or just keep track of the ranges?

Posted on 2004-09-11 20:12:28

Gayo

By the way, that bubbles background looks like it comes from a 1980s hairstylist magazine.

Posted on 2004-09-11 20:23:56

zaril

grue: the graph will be based on a scale from 0 to 100 and the functions that will come with the .vc (which will read the trimod file(s)) will extract the Y value when you supply it with the X value. in my case X is level, and Y is the value of an attribute.

keeping it to percentage will most probably give it wider usage, but it will mean that the user has to provide some minimum and maximum value for the scale.

the editor will save a session of trimods to a file, the format so far is not determined if i'll make it easy to edit by hand or if i should just make it garbled nonsense. i'm thinking i might make it xml-like, but nothing really determined yet. the thought hit me today so not much is determined really.

my intention is to release the full sources so that if anyone feels like modifying the editor or interpreter, it's easy and open.

Posted on 2004-09-11 20:54:06

zaril

Trimod Editor Alpha Screenshots

Your Postfarming Skill has increased to 72!

Posted on 2004-09-11 22:05:14

gannon

looks very good.
question does it always have to have a positive slope?
also could you put in a fuction that gives you the difference between this the new current level and the privous level (to help with a class changing system and maybe stat items)

Posted on 2004-09-11 23:32:47 (last edited on 2004-09-11 23:39:14)

Interference22

Interesting. Can I just say, however, that you have the nicest fonts in your screenshots I've ever seen. The colour and composition almost makes me weep at the sight of words.

Posted on 2004-09-12 00:01:19

zaril

Quote:Originally posted by gannon

looks very good.
question does it always have to have a positive slope?
also could you put in a fuction that gives you the difference between this the new current level and the privous level (to help with a class changing system and maybe stat items)


Downwards slopes should be possible yes. Also, there will even be a function to return the percentage between one X and another X. You could easily do it yourself, but I will provide an easy enough function to gather that data. :)

Quote:Originally posted by Interference22

Interesting. Can I just say, however, that you have the nicest fonts in your screenshots I've ever seen. The colour and composition almost makes me weep at the sight of words.


Wow thanks, well, I'm glad you like it. the GUI still has some stuff to happen to it though. :)

Posted on 2004-09-12 00:38:09

mcgrue

Let me be the first to make fun of your name in this thread.

Haha... Hampus! :D

Posted on 2004-09-12 01:46:04

Troupe

Hammmmmmmmppppppussssssss

(There's a blast from the past now, eh ;)

Posted on 2004-09-12 08:16:23

zaril

If you thought it would go away, you're wrong. I've been working now and then on my Trimod stuff, and as a little defense as to why it has not gone a long way is because i had to rewrite the whole thing to fit some new structs for trimods and their trimod series.

The Trimod editor will allow you the amazing feature of customizing your own theme (or choose one of the premade ones). Anyway, the editor allows both Arrow key/Mouse manipulation. I'm going to make the buttons for the shortcut-keys so that you can do it all with your mouse, but right now you can just click and drag the curves around with your mouse if you want.

One of the hideously cute designs?
Girly Pink

And one which is a step more awesome.
Lotus

Anyway, as said, the simple two colors will be definable. I wonder why I bother, but I guess it's fun to me, I have no idea how many will actually bother to spend more than 2 seconds in this editor, or even use Trimods for their game. I can think it has a few implementations though, anyway.

My work continues.

Posted on 2004-10-09 13:43:17 (last edited on 2004-10-09 13:45:43)

Sungam

Any chance you could give a little more info about how the actual Trimods will end up? So that we'd know how to implement them in our games, if we wish?
Doesn't matter too much about the editor at this point, but some specifications and perhaps a sample file would be sheer awesomeness.

Posted on 2004-10-09 16:47:55

Feyr

I have to say, that's pretty freaking awesome. I'm not much of a math/statistics geek (struggled through Stats and am currently coasting through Cal III on minimum effort), but you have engaged my love for shiny little useful things. Yes, please do clean it up and release it...that's definitely something I'd use.

Posted on 2004-10-09 18:00:40

zaril

Quote:Originally posted by Sungam

Any chance you could give a little more info about how the actual Trimods will end up? So that we'd know how to implement them in our games, if we wish?
Doesn't matter too much about the editor at this point, but some specifications and perhaps a sample file would be sheer awesomeness.


Hard to tell right now, since there's some small confusion. Hearing that vecna is implementing floats in the future, I know that you'll be able to utilize the trimod system with less hassle (no need to used fixed point from user side). I'm deciding on two possibilities.

Either that the trimods are saved with max values so that you can simply return something like this:


int Strength = 20;
int Dexterity = 20;
int Level = 3;
int tmStr = TrimodFunction__GetByName('AttrFastCurve');
int tmDex = TrimodFunction__GetByName('AttrSlowCurve');

void LevelUp()
{
level++;
Strength += TrimodFunction__GetValue(tmStr, Level);
Dexterity += TrimodFunction__GetValue(tmDex, Level);
}


There will also be a function like this:


int TrimodFunction__GetRange(int ID, int min, int max);


Basically GetValue works like a GetRange only that it automatically uses 'min' as level-1, and 'max' as level.

The strings forwarded in GetByName are names you give individual series. A serie with trimods is what you can see in one window at a time, a lot of trimods linked together. In the above example you'll get them easily by name, I'll be nice enough to throw in error support, if you write it wrong, it will exit and return an error saying you sought a serie that doesn't exist.

The second way it could work if I decide not to save max values is that you'll have to submit them. Like this.


int Strength = 20;
int MaxStrength = 255;
int Dexterity = 20;
int MaxDexterity = 255;
int Level = 3;
int MaxLevel = 100;
int tmStr = TrimodFunction__GetByName('FastCurve');
int tmDex = TrimodFunction__GetByName('SlowCurve');

void LevelUp()
{
level++;

Strength += TrimodFunction__GetValue(tmStr, Level,
MaxLevel, MaxStrength);

Dexterity += TrimodFunction__GetValue(tmDex, Level,
MaxLevel, MaxDexterity);
}


Why? Well, both X and Y are percentual, because you won't always have values ranging from 0 to 100. Therefore you'll have to supply MaxValues to tell what Y100 represents in the graph.

I'm pretty sure I'll implement the first version (where you set a MaxValue for X and Y in the editor for each serie), it means you'll perhaps have to make more series, but I think we can spare the place for the much cleaner functions.

With floats, I might implement zooming in the Trimod Editor, which would allow you to set graphs to points between 0.00 and 100.00 (i.e. being able to set a point to say 56.25 instead of just 56).

I hope this satisfies SOME of your curiosity. I'm still working out some plans as to how I'll work everything out. Ashamed I be, but I'm currently working on a good GUI. I want it to be comfortable to work in. DETAILS, MY SON. I love them details.

Posted on 2004-10-09 19:21:20 (last edited on 2004-10-09 19:23:38)

ThinIce

Quote:Originally posted by zaril

Trimod Editor Alpha Screenshots

Your Postfarming Skill has increased to 72!


Postfarming? Elaborate please.

Posted on 2004-10-09 20:00:07

zaril

I didn't think it was much to report really, I just wanted to post something, thus postfarming.

If you are unfamiliar with the term Postfarming, it's the noble art of posting nonsense just to grow a larger postcount.

Posted on 2004-10-09 22:06:47

vecna

Because postcounts make you cool.

Posted on 2004-10-09 22:08:39

zaril

Yes, also I work while I postfarm. It's something to be admired.

UPDATE INFO:
It's actually not much at all. I've added buttons for Zoom levels (note the x1, x2 and x4). I added the ability to input Serie Name, Max X and Max Y by keyboard. Most of the time has gone to changes in the code and some artistic changes back and forth.

Posted on 2004-10-09 22:55:57 (last edited on 2004-10-09 22:59:06)


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