V3 Release Roadmap Discussion
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Actinium
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The Roadmap sounds great!
I'm excited about the mention of the "V1 RPG" VC library. It would be great for everyone to be able to make some little games without super hard coding. I'm sure there are going to be a lot of games with incredible art that come out using this- so many people mention that they can do the art but just can't do the coding. Hopefully this will turn that around!
Pack-ins are REALLY important. I'm glad to see the several v3 things out with source code and think it's going to be great to see Sully ported to v3 and then the new version of Sully. All will end up being wonderful reference material for those looking to create games.
On a final note, glad to see such activity in the community. McGrue and crew have done a wonderful job on the website and vec and crew have rocked the casbah with v3!
Posted on 2004-02-16 19:57:19
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anonymous
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I certainly can't wait to check out all of this new stuff. I'm really looking forward to it. V2 was too technical for me and I hope V3 can help me out since I am no engineer ;)
Posted on 2004-02-16 21:58:41
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rpgking
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This V3 stuff has me all excited too. If anything can truly revive the Verge community to its former glory(like V1 days), it'll be Verge3 with its newbie-friendly V1 RPG library.
Even though I'll continue to develop my current game in Verge2 til' completion, I will still definitely do something with Verge3 when the time comes :)
Posted on 2004-02-16 22:42:40
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Omni
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I'm just wondering if V3 VC will support object-oriented programming. Then again, even if it just V2 VC on steroids, that's still pretty cool. V2 VC was pretty neat to being with.
Posted on 2004-02-16 22:59:48
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The-Edge
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BTW, that's my anonymous post above.. Stupid browser security settings..
Posted on 2004-02-16 23:09:47
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mcgrue
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Posted by Omni:
I'm just wondering if V3 VC will support object-oriented programming.
v3's vc is not OOP. There are new additions to the language like multidim arrays and structs, however, to make organization easier on the programmer.
v3 is fully capable of making very complex game structures in an easy-to-read way. And I'm saying this as an OOP junkie.
Also, functional programming is more entry level than OOP, and everyone should remember that vc is, above all else, a scripting language aimed at accessability. That it also can be used in complex ways is a secondary feature.
However, for those of you that love and crave OOP, there are solutions available within VERGE. However, they are neither friendly nor easy. It's much easier for even the accomplished just to adopt a functional mindset. Remember kids, functional != impossible, or even unfriendly... it's just different.
Posted on 2004-02-17 00:44:49
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KilloZapit
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Is it at least possible to use pointers to functions in structs?
Posted on 2004-02-17 01:24:44 (last edited on 2004-02-17 01:31:14)
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Tatzen
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Not _exactly_. However, in V3 VC you can store a function's name in a string, and use CallFunction("MyFunction"); So you can effectively store virtual "function pointers", in a structure. It's just a string, however. Pulser uses this extensively.
Posted on 2004-02-17 01:43:26
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KilloZapit
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Well I guess with that Verge 3 VC might be at least be as functional as Quake C when it came to OOP crap. Quake C didn’t have classes, but it didn’t really need it. It seams like it would be better if VC had pointers though. That reminds me of something I wanted to ask a long time ago: Is there anyway that Entities could have custom or extra general use VC fields?
BTW, wasn’t Verge 3 going to use C Sharp? Was that dropped?
Posted on 2004-02-17 02:56:11
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andy
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C# is about the worst possible language for an engine like v3. The paradigms just don't fit. You have to write lots of static things. blech.
Of course, this is purely speculation on my part. I've embedded C# in v2.6 before, and the results were... unpleasant.
Posted on 2004-02-17 16:08:20
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Zulithe
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Does it use C#? From what I understood, the new VC is a subset of C#... or at least that is what the release notes 2 years ago made it sound like... so I could be wrong, or the information could have changed since then.
I do know that Verge3 requires the .NET Framework version 1.1 (I was told it wasn't fully compatible with 1.0) installed in order to develop the games, but the actual games themselves will not require it to be installed in order to work, so people who download your games won't need to download the 23MB runtime. Whew! :)
You can get the .NET Framework 1.1 from windows update
Posted on 2004-02-17 18:57:29
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mcgrue
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Verge3 does not require the .NET framework.
The standard set of dev tools do. There's a difference.
There are also dev tools being made in java for the anti-MS/pro-Sun crew.
However, the engine is completly free and clear of any massive library requirements (unless you count windows itself as a massive library requirement).
Remember, the dev tools we provide, while useful, are not an integrated or required part of using verge. You could create your maps and .chr's bit by bit using an 1880's style telegraph machine jury rigged to your serial port for all the engine cares... although I would strongly advise you you don't.
Posted on 2004-02-17 20:17:44
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blues_zodiakos
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I don't know if it's been mentioned, but does anyone know what kind of font system V3 will be using? Is it the old one? It would be so neat if you could drop a TrueType or OpenType font in the directory and just Font = LoadFont("Helvetica");
Also, is the font that PrintString is currently using embedded into the exe, or is that System?
Posted on 2004-02-17 21:39:03
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andy
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Also, functional programming is more entry level than OOP, and everyone should remember that vc is, above all else, a scripting language aimed at accessability. That it also can be used in complex ways is a secondary feature.
However, for those of you that love and crave OOP, there are solutions available within VERGE. However, they are neither friendly nor easy. It's much easier for even the accomplished just to adopt a functional mindset. Remember kids, functional != impossible, or even unfriendly... it's just different.
Just as a sidenote, VC is not functional at all. Functional programming languages behave more like mathematical functions than a series of steps to be performed.
Basically, a functional language does not involve saying when to do what, so much as how to create a final result. Functional langauges also tend to lack, or frown upon destructive writes. (ie assignment statements)
VC is procedural, not functional.
</tangent>
Posted on 2004-02-17 21:46:46 (last edited on 2004-02-17 21:47:52)
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mcgrue
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Er, right. Somehow I've always set functional = procedural, even though I've known the truth for a bit now.
I still refuse to call functions 'methods', tho.
Posted on 2004-02-17 22:00:35
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TomT64
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Look here to see an example of fonts in use.
Posted on 2004-02-17 23:23:33
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blues_zodiakos
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Link doesn't work.
Posted on 2004-02-17 23:41:20
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Overkill
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Add "id" in between the "?" and the "=" to make it work. It does that to all links.
Posted on 2004-02-18 01:44:27
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locke
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I, too, want to add my excitement about many of the items listed in the Roadmap.
Releasing it with a v1-like library is incredibly smart. Just a simple tile-based rendering engine would have been fine to start with, but adding a battle system, etc... that's going to open the door to all levels of game designers.
Nice work, guys. I'd also like to extend a few kind words to McGrue and the rest of the crew for getting this site off the ground. Good stuff.
Now that you've got all of our attentions... don't go and disappoint us by delaying it another year! ;)
-locke
...of the old-school
Posted on 2004-02-18 21:06:07
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mcgrue
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It's true. Locke's school is one of the oldest round these parts.
Posted on 2004-02-18 22:04:51
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