V3 Timeless Issues + Source zip
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There is a known crash bug in Timeless, but so far its only exhibited itself on Falthorn's computer, and that lush is never around often enough to help me track it down. If you get this bug, please post an overview of your system configuration - OS, video card, etc. If you are VC savvy and get this crash and have time to hop on IRC or something and help me debug it, that'd be awesome too.

Also, there's an unpacked version of timeless with the VC source included available at: http://vecna.verge-rpg.com/timeless.zip. Feel free to poke around!

Posted on 2004-02-13 01:41:50


...I will activly reward anyone making something neat with v3, sans docs, with avatar privledges ;)

Oooh... what amazing rewards, eh?

Posted on 2004-02-13 07:21:45


The bug has been tracked down. Now, hopefully I can fix it this weekend. Which will still be a bit tricky being that it works fine on my computer. ^_^

It seems to be a bug in HookTimer, btw.

Posted on 2004-02-13 13:37:22


Why would hooktimer have a videocard-related error? :o

Posted on 2004-02-13 19:58:32


It doesnt appear to be video card related at all.

It seems, instead, to be based on Mojo.

Canadians crash, or something.


Posted on 2004-02-13 23:31:14 (last edited on 2004-02-13 23:31:44)


it seems to work perfectly on win98. It's a great program too!

Posted on 2004-02-14 01:18:20


Oh my, that is simply too cool. Didn't crash, and I let it run for about 10 minutes as I was absorbed into the surrealness. If that's any indication of power of V3, then maybe I WILL hold my breath for it.

I'm going through the source as we speak.


Alrighty, I've gone through it a bit, and even though it might be 'cheating' it seems like a cool effect that could be used to render something like the background during the battle against Lavos in Chrono Trigger (if you know what I mean).

I have a couple of questions - is MP3 (or OGG) available to the PlayMusic command? If it isn't, is this planned? I can scrounge some mods off of ModArchive, that isn't a problem, and I can always track a little bit, but it would be awesome if I could use my fruityloops to make some music for a V3 game.
Also, will there be support for movie files other than FLC (if that is even still supported, blech)? I don't know how easy it is to include this, but I think it might be a simple bit of code because DirectShow includes most of that, I think. It would be nice to fully utilize my 'copy' of Maya 5. :D

Regardless, V3 is going to rock, it seems. :D

Posted on 2004-02-14 05:43:35 (last edited on 2004-02-14 06:21:35)


Probably should give the cheating function a better name in the long run, too...

Posted on 2004-02-14 16:45:09


Hehe. I'm glad you like it, Zodiakos :) We really have felt like we were on the right track with V3, which is why we're sticking with it, despite the fact that it's like, work and stuff. :D

Regarding the sound system - actually, yeah, thats something I'm looking at right now. The verge.exe included in Timeless uses Mikmod, which does not support MP3s or anything like that. However, I've pretty much decided to switch to FMOD which is a commercial sound system (which is free for non-commercial use). It really does pretty much everything you could ever want of a sound system - it plays all the standard module formats, MP3s (including supporting mp3s as sound effects), and OGGs, as well as MIDIs, supports module pattern timing and such, crossfading, etc. It also supports a lot of rediculously unnecessary features like the ability to play freakin SHOUTCAST STREAMS, 3d sound positioning with doppler, occlusion and all kinds of crazy stuff.

Those advanced features will probably NOT be exposed to VC in the first versions. Eventually I would plan to adding interfaces for that, however, if there was any interest in it.

FMOD does have one drawback right now - something that I hope will be corrected in FMOD4 - which is that it fully and correctly plays official standards of XM and IT, but it does not right now support the unofficial additions that ModPlug Tracker made to those formats. When I first tried FMOD, it was with Timeless, and there is a lot of music by zaril in there - which all use modplug tracker. And I was really put off because this otherwise perfect sound system was screwing up on like 30% of the mods that I tried. But when I realized what the problem was, I tried it on more mods and those were the only 3 mods on my entire harddrive that didnt play correctly in FMOD. And since mods that dont play correctly could always be converted to MP3 and played with FMOD that way, I decided the advantages of FMOD outweighed that problem.

Regarding the 'cheating' function and its name - It has some quirks which is why it is named what it is and I was not intending to document it. The two main quirks are that the source image object MUST be 256x256 and that the resulting render is ALWAYS 320x200. Those restrictions are not consistent with the rest of the V3 api (nor does it correctly abide by clipping rectangles or SetLucent), which is why I did not intend it for general use. Due to the way the V3 graphics API is set up, however, it can be wrapped in such a way that you can do clipping and lucency with it.

I can fix the function up, however. The present version uses a precomputed table, so it is very fast, but thats the source of the resolution constraints. We did finally reverse engineer that table and can now run the effect at any resolution - much slower. It would be possible to set it up to generate tables on the fly, that will require some additional work tho.

V3 will be able to play any movie that runs through DirectShow.

Posted on 2004-02-14 17:43:13


Those are both great news, because they are both some of the main things that I have felt have always been missing from verge. Especially the movie bit. I'm not an expert on maya (yet), but I'm shaping up pretty well, I've been able to model a few things well which surprised me a bit (especially a render I made of a lavalamp, which if I may say, is spot on). The streaming music is another great bit, and rounds out pretty much the only other REAL flaw... everything else is just a matter of workarounds.

P.S. Where was the freaking carrot in the original demos for verge1? This has bothered me for I don't KNOW how many years.

Posted on 2004-02-15 00:16:17



Check here. Thats ancient, but seeing that was immensely gratifying. :D

Posted on 2004-02-15 01:23:02


Oh my god, that sucks so bad, I remember passing that carrot in the field, and I KNEW it had somthing to do with it, but I swear that it didn't do anything...

I'm going to have to play that game again now. I wonder if there are any versions that even run on windows xp now. :D

Posted on 2004-02-15 09:10:54


I wonder if there are any versions that even run on windows xp now. :D


That'll play in winXP.

Posted on 2004-02-15 09:42:58


Oh awesome, I'm playing it now. :D It even still has that ripped mod of Eternal Twilight, hehe!

Posted on 2004-02-15 16:31:19

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