Feature Request - Platform Notation
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Crissa

In Downloads, many of the demos are compiled only for one platform.

It would be useful to know which platforms each demo supported before downloading and extracting them.

-Crissa

Posted on 2006-01-12 03:09:11

Overkill

Almost all are for Windows, unless they clearly state they are for Mac. Verge originated on and is best supported on Windows, so it's safe to assume they're designed for the Windows OS unless otherwise noted. Ideally, rather than having to make OS-specific versions of our games, we can just compile the VergeC code with the executable in our platform of choice and it will run.

Posted on 2006-01-12 15:07:33

mcgrue

Uh, that doesn't mean this isn't a good, and sane, request.

Because it is, and we will be doing it. And by "we", overkill, I mean you me.

Posted on 2006-01-12 15:19:23

Kildorf

Quote:
Originally posted by Overkill

Almost all are for Windows, unless they clearly state they are for Mac. Verge originated on and is best supported on Windows, so it's safe to assume they're designed for the Windows OS unless otherwise noted. Ideally, rather than having to make OS-specific versions of our games, we can just compile the VergeC code with the executable in our platform of choice and it will run.

Which you can do, IF the source code is included.

Posted on 2006-01-12 15:33:56

Overkill

I agree with both arguments, and I also agree that a platform/OS field would be a good thing to have. However, I really can't add this myself since I have lots of school work due in a short period of time. It certainly wouldn't be too hard to implement, but I can't afford to lose time that should be spent trying to pass my courses in order to finish my education.

Posted on 2006-01-13 15:36:39

ustor

I think not just having a flag to indicate the platform, but also actually having the option to have a current version for each supported platform would be nice. It would be a bit more work (or perhaps require an immense retooling of the files section, I'm not in a position to know), but it would make a much more streamlined experience for our ever diversifying userbase.

Posted on 2006-01-14 03:59:45

mcgrue

Such things won't be hard, really. The hard part is finding time.

Posted on 2006-01-14 11:36:43

Crissa

Quote:
Originally posted by mcgrue

Uh, that doesn't mean this isn't a good, and sane, request.

Because it is, and we will be doing it. And by "we", overkill, I mean you me.


*giggle*

Thank you. Noting which have source could would be nice, too!

I'm putting off actually compiling tests until next week, then I'll see if I can get a protodemo of my project. You tools are a bit arcane, but all the examples I've seen so far are fantastic.

Totally putting my hobby eggs in your basket...

-Crissa

Posted on 2006-01-18 01:45:55

resident

I've said that before. I don't know why Verge even bothers to keep the vsp and chr formats around. It seems like it'd be 100 times more sane to load them directly from Verge rather than have to chuck them through an external program, especially in light of the fact that the VC's are compiled at runtime.

Posted on 2006-01-18 03:23:37

mcgrue

What... store them in the .xvc file?

Posted on 2006-01-18 09:27:56

adderd

Forgive the nieve question. But why on Earth aren't compiled verge games cross platform? Shouldn't a verge data file be able to be read by any platform's verge runtime exe?

Posted on 2006-01-19 11:26:15

Overkill

Mainly because endian-ness differences between processors and OSes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness for more details. But I think it's eventually planned to make the xvc go cross-platform, it just isn't handled properly for the different OSes atm.

Posted on 2006-01-19 20:03:05

adderd

Quote:
Originally posted by Overkill

Mainly because endian-ness differences between processors and OSes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness for more details. But I think it's eventually planned to make the xvc go cross-platform, it just isn't handled properly for the different OSes atm.



That's what I thought you'd say. It's really fairly easy to fix endian issues in verge's situation. You'd need two routines, one that checks for which endian bias a processor has, and one that reverses end if the processor is different from expected. Heck, I can program, maybe I'll add that into verge. It might be a little tricky in that I dont think verge loads everything into memory all at once but it still should be fairly straightforward. Everywhere that a compiled vergec file is loaded a fixup routine would need to be called.

At any rate, I do think that it would be worthwhile to make verge games crossplatform.

Posted on 2006-01-20 08:32:48

yhnmzwcs

If we're going to end up with a cross-platform VERGE, I recommend making VERGE "shellable". Surely there's a better term.
'Make VERGE accept a vc or xvc file as its argument, such that if it is run with no argument, it works relative its own directory, and if it gets an argument, it works relative to that file's location'

That should be pretty easy to program, as opposed to tremendous things (gfx, endiannesses, etc)

Posted on 2006-01-20 12:04:53

adderd

Yes, what you are referring to is being potentially able to install the verge engine to a common directory and then install various games to their own seperate directories. The games just call the verge engine from it's common location and it runs them from their directory. This allows one to have one copy of the verge runtime installed instead of one copy for each game. That is what you mean right? That's a good idea.

Posted on 2006-01-20 12:38:33

vecna

For what it's worth:

1) Windows compiled .XVCs are binary compatible with intel-macs!

2) The main reason the mac build isn't binary compatible is that, aside from having to add endian-flips in lots of places in the interpreter, it absolutely HAS to do that on the fly, theres no way it can reasonably be done as a pre-process step, which means it will be endian-flipping as it interprets code which is going to make the VC even slower.

3) Generally, we would encourage people to include the VC source, and in my experience MOST people do. Aside from the mac issue, another reason is that absolutely no effort is made to maintain binary .XVC compatibility across different versions of verge.exe. It's basically assumed that it will be compiled at runtime so that it's always compiled and interpreted by the same EXE.

Posted on 2006-01-20 17:02:26

adderd

Vecna,

Thanks for the reply!

#1: That's cool. It's what I'd expect and luckily what I'd get. ;-)

#2: Yes, it would happen in a lot of places in a compiler but if there is a precompiled XVC file then what is stopping a routine from wholesale converting all numbers from one format to another? Precompiled code should be able to be switched back and forth before the verge runtime really gets going. Endian issues don't effect the size of the code or the size of integers, etc. So a simple swap of the bytes should be all that is needed. What am I missing that would make it harder than I am expecting?

#3: That does sound like a problem. Also, in order to do a conversion from one endian format to another there'd need to be an endian designator in the XVC file. Currently there isn't one and so that in itself would break binary compatibility with older versions.

Posted on 2006-01-20 18:41:08

mcgrue

Can source be included and compiled from a packfile? Not for security, mind you, but for cleanliness of distribution?

Also, it might be a useful mode if we had a "attempt compile only if there's no xvc present" release mode. That way people could package their games without the xvc and have one distro to rule them all.

Another idea would be to have magic-name xvcs for each OS verge can run. WIN.xvc, MAC.xvc, LINUX.xvc, etc. That way someone with a hugeass game could single-distro everything without having that initial slowload.

Posted on 2006-02-18 15:46:42

adderd

I dont see why the source could not be loaded from a packfile. I dont know if verge supports it currently but I think it would be easy enough to do.

I still think that all os's will be able to use the same XVC file. Endian issues really aren't as hard as people make them out to be. Also, all (new) macs are going to be on intel within the next year or two. That will make most all platforms little endian.

Posted on 2006-02-21 10:44:20


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