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Interference22
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I own a Gamecube and a PC. While I generally dislike the current crop of consoles, I still love Nintendo very dearly because it still manages to entertain where other games machines don't.
You only need to read a copy of Official Playstation / Xbox magazine in the UK to be assaulted with some distinctly low-brow writing and reviews that not only defy belief but logic as well.
A guy in my class owns an Xbox. He's a total and utter moron. He buys car magazines featuring hideously modded cars, unattractive models getting their proverbials out and the glorification of drugs use. He thought True Crime was good.
DX2 particularly annoyed me in the way it was blatantly optimised for Xbox. Its not that the PC can't handle the game but its so poorly programmed that bits of it tend to fall off if you push it too hard. And the size of the levels! The original DX had some truly huge architecture. DX2 is microscopic by comparison. Liberty Island in DX was one large map (barring UNATCO's base). DX2 cuts this into approximately FOUR seperate maps to fit into Xbox's memory. In trying to fit closely to the workings of a PC (without the technical mcguffins) its actually dragging the PC down to its level.
PC multiplayer is something you have to live with. Its not the games fault, its the bastards on the other end of the line whose fault it is. Be content in the fact that when you frag that git in the face with a redeemer, you're doing it because he's a GIT. It feels much more satisfying knowing you're blowing someone into their component parts who deserves it.
Trust me, without the PC Deus Ex would have either been a twinkle in Warren Spector's eye or a book. What do you think they *developed* it on?
Consoles and PCs have their place. If I want a deep and involving game, I turn to my PC. If I want a quick blast with my friends, I turn to my 'Cube. The bastard child of both has no place.
Posted on 2004-05-10 09:59:40
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Alex
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You leave Xbox alone you cruel man. It is the spiritual successor to Dreamcast, and so deserves our respect.
And one of the points I was trying to make about online multiplayer on PC is that (Red Alert 2 being the example, though I'm sure it goes on with other games too) people modify the game, allowing them to cheat.
On the one occasion that I played RE2 online, I think I played 3 games, and I am going to describe them here in all their awfulness:
The first time was against about 5 other people. They all cheated. Within minutes they all had hundreds of Mammoth Tanks running around the map, and bases the size of Switzerland. I didn't cheat, and so, I lost. After my last soldier got squished I hung around for a few minutes in order to tell these people exactly what I thought of them, but they didn't appear to take any notice of me. Gits.
The second time I decided to play against just one other person, confident of the fact that in the last game I had simply inadvertantly stumbled across some kind of moronic losers' get-together, and that the next time would be fine.
And it was. He seemed to be a decent and honourable foe. Until the massive fleet of airships arrived on my side of the map, that is. So again, I lost (though once I saw the airships I didn't try, I just used the remaining time to insult him and his family, before quitting to deny him the "satisfaction" of "victory").
I decided to try once again. This time, against one player, I neglected to build up my forces and instead went the route of building whatever was necessary to reveal the whole map as soon as possible, in order that any shenanigans should become apparent to me at once. I thought that if he was going to try to cheat, I would let the evil little sod build up his army to immense proportions and move off for the attack, at which point I would quit. Thus providing for myself some small amusement. To my extreme annoyance however, when the map was revealed, HE WASN'T CHEATING. But I had no soldiers or tanks, and he did. And ships. And a couple of airships. SO I LOST AGAIN.
So I came to the (quite reasonable, I think) conclusion that PC online multiplayer is a dire waste of time.
Posted on 2004-05-10 12:05:02 (last edited on 2004-05-10 18:31:31)
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Interference22
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Cheaters are, of course, the bane of EVERYTHING. They pop up in many places but sadly that's one of human nature's uglier facets. Don't even hang around to insult them, just a quick "You are the lowest form of life." before disconnecting will suffice.
First-person shooters are easier to handle even if there is a cheater in the game: the bastard eventually gets spotted and is promptly kicked off the server. And you can always avoid him.
Its best to get to know your opponent first in a strat game before jumping into battle so you have an inkling of whether they cheat or not.
LAN is much nicer. If someone cheats, you're within throwing distance and can therefore pour burning hot coffee in their lap. Plus LAN cafes full of 12-year-old kids playing Quake 3 are great fun: racing like a lunatic around the levels, blasting those little pop-purchasing sods into the middle of next week is the finest way to relieve stress known to man.
And that final defeat was your fault, of course. You weren't aiming to win, you were aiming to work out if he was a cheat or not. Don't let it get to you. Rest easy in the fact that *proper* gamers don't cheat their proverbials off.
Posted on 2004-05-11 10:13:39
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Troupe
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Gaha, score one for Interference! PC multiplayer is awesome. Alex: Play a 64 player game of Battlefield 1942, and you will understand. Play an MMORPG, and you will understand. Console multiplayer is fun, yes. But if you are an only child with no one else to play with (like me), then getting online and kicking ass is a great alternative.
IN OTHER NEWS
FFX is the greatest game ever.
Posted on 2004-05-11 14:12:00
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Alex
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64 player? I think not. At least with two players I can only finish second...
Interference, that last defeat wasn't my fault, it was the fault of my experiences in the previous games, and so the fault of the morons therein.
But I am a reasonable fellow, and everyone deserves a second chance. So I am going to play Red Alert 2 online again tonight, and base my final verdict (on online multiplayer games) on what happens. i.e. if they don't cheat, then online multiplayer rules. If they cheat, then I hate online multiplayer, PCs, people who play online games, and any other related things which may require hating in such a situation.
I am confident that my original judgement on the matter was correct.
Posted on 2004-05-11 19:35:40 (last edited on 2004-05-12 22:03:36)
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Troupe
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Whoa wait. Here's a plan! Try playing a game online that... DOESNT SUCK.
If you're going to play an RTS online, at least make it starcraft. Playing sucky games online sucks no matter who you are playing with. But I guess since you obviously haven't updated your technology since you moved out of your parents house at age 35, you don't have any better games to play.
PS
I am assuming that you are older than 35. Even though I know you are not. That is part of the funnyHAHAH.
...
Posted on 2004-05-11 20:55:50
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Alex
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Quote:Originally posted by Troupe
Whoa wait. Here's a plan! Try playing a game online that... DOESNT SUCK.
Don't get sarcastic with me, young sir. Yes I am not older than 35. And there's nothing wrong with RA2. Apart from the people who play it, that is (me excluded). :p Although Red Alert 1 is still better. I wonder if I should try that online... No. Even I can cheat at RE1...
And I can't play non-"sucky" games if I don't have them. And I haven't bought a PC game since Black and White, because of Xbox, on which games are better. Oh, wait... we've already had this bit of the argument...
I put my computer together myself from various other ones that died, so yes, it sucks. It's the slowest 1.4ghz computer in the entire world.
Posted on 2004-05-11 22:02:36
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loretian
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I can't believe I'm reading some of the stuff I've been reading in this thread.
I couldn't even read all the posts, it was so disturbing.
First of all, let me clarify something for you. PC games are superior to console games. End of story.
Why?
The only games worth playing you need a mouse to play them with any sort of degree of accuracy, unless you want lame auto aiming ala GTA.
Also, the multiplayer, which is fantastic. I'm sorry if you had some problems with immature people playing Red Alert 2, but generally speaking, it's better to play with friends than just random people. You also have the ability to have a 32 person lan party if you all want to be in the same room, you just can't do that with consoles.
Finally, and most importantly, there are actual RPGs for PCs, my favorite type of game. The only RPG I'm even aware of for consoles is Morrowind for the X-Box, which is a port of a PC game. Note: I don't count adventure games with hit points tacked onto them as RPGs, like Final Fantasy. It's fine if you like those kinds of games, but calling them RPGs is like calling my penis a skyscaper.
Posted on 2004-05-11 22:51:01
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Alex
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Then let me clarify something too...
It IS better to play with friends than random people, and that is exactly why online gaming is so crap. If I want to play a game with my friends I'll lure them them in here with promises of free drink, then lock the door and force them to play Halo/PGR2/Whatever with me on the same console, in front of the same TV. It's just not as fun to not be able to hit people when you lose or taunt them when you win, and just be with other people. This is why consoles are better.
And there's the old argument of not having to upgrade them etc, which is good if you're poor like me.
I will make a concession however, in that the PC has RPGs all wrapped up. Proper RPGs have always been better on computers than consoles. That point I will never argue (though I have Morrowind on Xbox and wouldn't consider using the PC version instead because I know that on my computer at least, it wouldn't be as good).
Posted on 2004-05-11 23:21:24
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Troupe
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Lore es dios.
I HAVE MURDERED THE SPANISH.
Yes, Lore hit the proverbial nail on the head. There is a huge difference between console RPGs and computer RPGs. To be honest, I like them both equally. This weekend I reinstalled Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights, and let me tell you, badass. The freedom and customization in D&D-based RPGs is so infinitely cool. I'm all for playing Shining Force and Final Fantasy, and I'm all for playing Morrowind and NWN, but what I am not all for is excluding one or the other. The two are like food and water. You think you are fine with one or the other, until you realize you are starving yourself or dying of thirst. And then, you must quench your thirst with a deluge of delicious computer games.
...
That is a bad analogy, but I will stick to it. PC games are neither inferior or superior to console games. There are things consoles do right, and there are things PCs do right. PC is good for the FPS, D&D RPG, RTS, and strategy genres, while consoles are magnificent for the FF-sytle RPG, Fighting, Action, and Adventure genres. SO THERE YOU LOSE ALEX.
Posted on 2004-05-12 15:24:11
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Troupe
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And it can be just as fun to play multiplayer with people you don't know as with people you do. I play an MMORPG called Star Wars Galaxies, and I have met some really seriously awesome people through it. We have a program called Teamspeak so we can talk to eachother with Microphones while we are playing, and I've had some truly great times. This weekend we had around 6 or 7 people on TS at once, and I was making a fool of myself, and everyone started laughing at once, and it was like the room was filled with people. Its a lot of fun. Yet another reason why I think PC and consolre are both necessary for proper gaming experiences. They are just different.
Posted on 2004-05-12 15:27:33
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loretian
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I'd agree the two aren't exclusive, but I have absolutely no desire to play the console style RPGs. Shining Force is pretty cool, but the vast majority of them come across as "whacky japanese style characters that you can't tell apart unless you like cat-poo or whatever the hell that japanese cat brand shit is.." or something.
But yeah. Mainly I just wanted to post a Pro-PC games message, because that's all I play, but consoles really do have some value. I've just never felt the need for them, myself.
Posted on 2004-05-12 17:08:51
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mcgrue
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Quote:Originally posted by loretian
But yeah. Mainly I just wanted to post a Pro-PC games message, because that's all I play, but consoles really do have some value. I've just never felt the need for them, myself.
To this day, we're not really sure why Lore joined up with VERGE. I think it's got something to do with vecna's pheremones. Man, we should bottle that boy's man-musk!
...
Posted on 2004-05-12 18:40:54
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ThinIce
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I'm more of a hardcore FPS/Strategy game person myself- I don't have the patience for RPG's =\
Heck, I still haven't finished chrono trigger.
Posted on 2004-05-12 18:45:44
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Alex
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Quote:Originally posted by Troupe
SO THERE YOU LOSE ALEX.
Never! I know that PCs are better for some things *cough*wordprocessing*cough* than consoles. But when all's said and done, it's a matter of preference, and for games I prefer consoles. Let's all agree to disagree!
[Cough thingy (c)Interference. Another credit for Mr Burbidge!]
Posted on 2004-05-12 18:55:11 (last edited on 2004-05-12 21:48:16)
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mcgrue
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Quote:Originally posted by ThinIce
I'm more of a hardcore FPS/Strategy game person myself- I don't have the patience for RPG's =\
Heck, I still haven't finished chrono trigger.
You, sir, are a soulless automaton. Good day.
Posted on 2004-05-12 18:57:40
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ThinIce
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;_;
You're an evil cat lover!
Posted on 2004-05-12 19:07:33
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Alex
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Quote:Originally posted by Alex
But when all's said and done, it's a matter of preference, and for games I prefer consoles. Let's all agree to disagree!
Sod that, I've changed my mind again. Consoles are best. Irrefutably. Fable proves this, or will prove it when it's released. It will be a momentous event in the history of our world. Just like the Resurrection, but with less Jesus.
And why are there at least two people here who don't like (console style) RPGs? This is a strange state of affairs indeed...
Posted on 2004-05-12 23:36:30 (last edited on 2004-05-12 23:37:26)
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Technetium
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I must be living in the Dark Ages. I don't even know what kind of video card I have. O_o
Posted on 2004-05-13 02:51:54
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Interference22
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While there are some very nice console RPGs (Skies of Arcadia: Legends, Chrono Trigger, FF etc.) my top ten greatest games of all time is mostly PC games:
1. Chrono Trigger / Outcast
2. Deus Ex
3. Baldurs' Gate
4. Thief 2: The Metal Age
5. Anachronox
6. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
7. Morrowind (PC Version)
8. System Shock 2
9. Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
10. Farcry
Remember, if the ending didn't make you cry tears of joy, its not the best. Outcast's musical score and storyline had me weeping into my Dr Pepper, as did Chrono Trigger.
Posted on 2004-05-13 09:55:04
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