It's not really that the music is 'trendy' that I hate. It's that it's lazy. They slap a few powercords and drums together and sing badly written lyrics and call it an album and then go on to win Grammies. Heck, I can do that. Well, if I had the equipment, talent and budget anyway. Why should I treat them like some big shot artistic musicians if they don't produce anything that sounds like they spent more then five minutes on? I mean, I have no problem with a bunch of people sitting down and just jamming, but it only is worth listening to if they have crazy genius talent, and most bands simply don't. The thing that pisses me of about the whole popular music thing is it encourages laziness. Take boy bands for instance. They don't need to work at anything, all they do is sing up on stage. Will I say that all of their music is awful and unredeemable in any way? Well, I honestly can't say.

I will say this: How could anyone anywhere ever ever like Green Day and not like Pink Floyd? It boggles the mind! Stylistic diffrences aside, there is a huge huge HUGE difference in terms of sheer quality. Do an experiment, reduce a Green Day song and a Pink Floyd song down to 8-Bit Nintendo music and see what is better. You know, actually I think a lot of Green Day songs might turn out very well that way. Okay, okay, if Green Day didn’t use so much powercords and shit I might like them. I hate goddamn powercords. But, as strange as it is to hear a Pink Floyd fan say this, I also hate goddamn guitar solos.

You're just restating my point over and over again. You hate powerchords and guitar solos. I don't. I love both, especially guitar solos, being a guitarist and all.

What works for you, doesn't necessarily work for me.

And I'm not saying that you should treat anyone like a big rockstar if you don't want to. It's when you make a comment like 'I bet you wouldn't like half this crap if it weren't for the name behind it.' It insults my intelligence simply because you make it sound like I'm a mindless drone without a personal opinion. The point I'm trying to make is that I am not, and though I may not necessarily like Pink Floyd it doesn't mean I have poor taste in music, it just means I have a difference of opinion. It's not always about how creative or inventive a song is, some times it's just about how catchy the melody is or how a song can reflect my mood. If I'm pissed off the last thing I want to listen to is 'Comfortably Numb'. I'd probably want something along the lines of 'Cowboys from Hell'. If I'm high, then Pink Floyd would probably suit the mood well. :P

If there's one thing I have learned from the many many years of studying music for the sake of performance or to become a better composer is that simplicity can be just as effective as complication. No, Green Day doesn't have the complicated guitar parts that Pink Floyd does, but that doesn't mean their music is any worse. It just means for the style they play it isn't necessary. Not to mention that when you're only a 3 piece band there's only so much you can do. You also have to take into account that in studio you can have as many guitar tracks as you want played by the same guitarist but when performing live...unless you hire 10 other guitarists it'll never sound the same. And that's a REALLY important aspect for a professional band. Live shows matter just as much as the records they produce.

Yes 8-bit music rules, yes anime/video game/movie soundtracks are awesome as well, but they appeal to me in different ways, just as the 'simpler' bands like Green Day and Nirvana do. And how a Green Day fan can not like Pink Floyd has a simple answer to it: I'm not you. But we can relate this to Video game music if you'd like. There's that whole debate between Mitsuda and Uematsu, who is the better composer? Musically, I can say that Mitsuda is a far better arranger than Uematsu. His songs are more complicated and have a zillion different interesting and creative parts to them, where as Uematsu has a more simplistic approach. For me, I enjoy Uematsu's work more simply because I find his melodies to be more memorable despite how simple they can be. That's what works for me. :)

Boy bands indeed are lazy, musically, and get their songs written for them. But there is, and always will be, a major difference between composition and performance and there will always be a place for popstars and boy bands somewhere in the industry. People love to be entertained and though for some it may mean they care more about image than the music, not everyone loves music as much as you and I do. That's what works for them, and hey great. Who are we to judge? :) But I agree that there are some amazingly talented artists out there who don't get the recognition they deserve...but then perhaps that's for the best because of how overplayed any popular song gets. :P

But again, I'm not trying to convert you over to my way of thinking I'm just defending my position as to reasons why I like the music I do. It was just that one quote that set me off. :P But I mean, I personally love the fact that you care about the creative aspect in music...there's so much amazing stuff supporting an overall melody in a good majority of music that usually goes unnoticed by the average listener. I just think that there's also a place for simpler music as well. :)

Quote:Originally posted by KilloZapit

It's not really that the music is 'trendy' that I hate. It's that it's lazy. They slap a few powercords and drums together and sing badly written lyrics and call it an album and then go on to win Grammies. Heck, I can do that. Well, if I had the equipment, talent and budget anyway. Why should I treat them like some big shot artistic musicians if they don't produce anything that sounds like they spent more then five minutes on? I mean, I have no problem with a bunch of people sitting down and just jamming, but it only is worth listening to if they have crazy genius talent, and most bands simply don't. The thing that pisses me of about the whole popular music thing is it encourages laziness. Take boy bands for instance. They don't need to work at anything, all they do is sing up on stage. Will I say that all of their music is awful and unredeemable in any way? Well, I honestly can't say.

I think it is rather unwise to have written this after stating that 'all music other than Pink Floyd' sucks. The vast majority of music is never played on the radio or on MTV. If you are a fan of Pink Floyd, then surely you realize that many of their greatest songs (Echoes, Shine on You Crazy Diamond, Dogs, Pigs, Sheep) are pretty much never played on the radio.

Pink Floyd is my favorite band, but I don't think they are the only good one. If you enjoy their sound, you may like a band called Porcupine Tree. Good examples of their sound are the songs 'Pure Narcotic', 'Darkmatter', and 'The Moon Touches Your Shoulder'.

Quote:Originally posted by Omni

Iwadare gets no love.

Uematsu and Mitsuda are equally good. You've probably heard Uematsu's piano arrangements, right? The FF8 Piano Collection is very well done. And Mitsuda is great too. I really like the Xenosaga soundtrack he did. I think they both are pretty much equally good. They should team up sometime or something.

How about this? William Hung. Should you deserve to be famous just for being bad? Should you deserve to have your product reach audiences over other musicians (who probably have more talent and put more effort into it) just because you are notoriously appealing to love of bad music? Sure, there's a demand for bad music, I guess, but does it deserve to be marketed rather than other, perhaps more worthy, artists?

Of course. I'm the ultimate Uematsu fan boy so I've definately heard the piano collections. :P But those weren't arranged by him. He doesn't have the skill to do it. Which is why even the orchestral stuff you hear composed by him is arranged by Shiro Hamaguchi. 'Liberi Fatali' in the opening FFVIII FMV for example. (But he does arrange all the stuff you hear in game. It's just the orchestral/vocal/piano stuff that he doesn't do, though I'm sure he has a major part in the overall production). I LOVE LOVE LOVE Uematsu's music and he is my favourite composer of all time, so when I say what I'm about to definately do not take it as an attack on him, but in regards to Mitsuda who arranges all his own stuff, in a technical sense I think he has more skill than Uematsu. Which is why I used that as a reference...just because Mistuda has more skill doesn't necessarily mean I have to like his music better. And that was the point I was trying to make.
But yes, both are amazing composers, with envious talent who deserve an unending amount of recognition.

In regards to William Huang...commercial music can be defined as its own industry but it ultimately is apart of something bigger known as the entertainment industry. If there's one thing that a majority of the population can relate to is the idea of being entertained. This is why popstars and boybands are so popular as well. Maybe their music doesn't appeal to a lot of people, but certainly their shows are entertaining (piro, dancing, etc. etc.) and that's where image comes into play. The music is just kind of there. :P William Huang, even if he realizes it or not, is entertaining to watch because of how bad he is. Maybe it's a poor tactic to make money, which is the ultimate goal of any business, but there it is, and we laugh at it. It's funny and puts a smile on our faces. Does he deserve to be famous because of his music? No, but I bet the show he puts on is something you won't soon forget. ;P

I'll bring up composition and performance again: You could be the greatest musician in the world, but if you're boring to watch, I won't go to your show. Sure I'll buy your record, and listen to it in the comfort of my home, praise your song writing abilities and recommend you to friends, but I certainly wouldn't want to go to a concert and fall asleep. :)

But does he deserve to be marketed more so than a more worthy artist? Nah, but people aren't stupid and the Huang fad won't last for much longer. The truly worthy artists are the ones that you still hear about 10 years from now, and not all those one hit wonders that come out every year. At least that's my take on it. :)

Quote:Originally posted by Omni

I feel bad now that I know Uematsu doesn't do the orchestrations and piano...I mean, he's still pretty cool, but...darn. I dunno how I feel about that.

*le sigh*
I know how you feel, because initially that's how I felt too. I was like whoa...maybe he's not as good as I thought. But that's really not true.

There is a difference between composition and arrangement. You can be a great composer, but a horrible arranger, and vice versa. It's actually more common than you'd think for a professional composer to hire an arranger to arrange their music for them. You just don't hear about arrangers as much because essentially, the parts/formatting/melodies/chords are all kept the same. The arranger just makes it more suitable for a certain instrument or instruments to play.

When dealing with an orchestra there is so much you have to take in account. Timbres, ranges, harmonies, dynamics and so forth. All these must be thought about when writing out the sheet music for an orchestra to play. Unless you are formally trained, it's incredibly difficult to write out on paper how you want an orchestra to sound. That's where an arranger comes into play. Their job is to know generally what it will sound like without having the orchestra constantly play it back to them. Then when the orchestra does, there is feedback from the musicians and revisions are made.

It's the same for piano. Unless you're a really proficient pianist, you could never write a truly great piano arrangement. It takes years of study to become that good.

The thing you have to remember when thinking about Uematsu is that he was never formally taught. He taught himself piano, composition, and so forth. So when you listen to his arrangements and compositions, you truly have to admire his talent and skill. He just hears that stuff, and adds it to his music. Like Troupe, and a majority of other great trackers. It's amazing, really. He's quite good at arranging in his own right, however. Listen to 'To Zanarkand' from FFX, 'Julia' or 'Ami' from FFVIII, 'Jesters of the Moon' or Treno, from FFIX, and you'll see that he's pretty damn good at doing piano arrangements. Aeris' Theme from the FFVII OSV still gave me shivers, actually, listen to anything from in game that uses traditional instruments and you'll see he's really damn good at arranging those as well. Listen to supporting parts in 'The Castle' or 'Dance with the Balamb Fish' from FFVIII, FFVII's Main Theme, 'Save Them!' from FFVI...and so on. It just doesn't sound as powerful because they're not real instruments. And really, if you listen to a lot of the Orchestral remixes...they're parts found within the OSV's, just expanded upon so that an entire, real, orchestra can play it.

I generally like to consider myself a good composer, but not a very good arranger. Given the opportunity to work with a real orchestra, I doubt that I could compose/arrange something that would sound very good simply because I don't know how. The closest I got was that Chocobo arrangement I did for the 2 flutes and an oboe...that was pretty tough to do. I had to ask a zillion questions about each instrument, and I was only dealing with two! @_@

In any event, it's still his music that he's composed so, he's still awesome. Just think about the impact he has made on VG music and that was before the orchestral versions of the soundtracks came out. He's just not has knowledgable as some other composers on the theory side of things.

We also share the same birthday, so that automatically makes him cooler than anyone. ;)

Quote:Originally posted by KilloZapit

I will say this: How could anyone anywhere ever ever like Green Day and not like Pink Floyd? It boggles the mind!
It's easy to like one and not like the other, simply because Pink Floyd were a prog rock band and Green Day are a punk band... Pretty much polar opposites as far as rock music is concerned.

And who is this William Huang person?

That site is ......um.....yeah. At least theres no embeded midis

Quote:Originally posted by Rysen

Quote:Originally posted by Ness

That site is ......um.....yeah. At least theres no embeded midis

ahahahahaha. Memories. *sniffle*

The screenshots on Troupe's page are wonderful but the one on Overkill's is priceless as well.

Hey... U LIEK WANNA JOIN MY WEBRING, RYSEN AND NESS WE NEED MOAR FANSITES TO HAVE A FABULUOS GAMING WURLD. Comeoen!!!one1!

Oh, and William Hung saddens me.

Quote:Originally posted by Troupe

We also share the same birthday, so that automatically makes him cooler than anyone. ;)

Really? I share Hitler's birthday! Boy, what a swell guy.

also dueos enyeones no wheare i can reach nobuo uamtesu? i wnt 2 askhi m if hekll do muisfc formy gaem. thx in advacne.

PS. Rysen do you think Frog's theme is more complex than Edgar/Sabin's? Chrono's more than Locke's? I don't believe Mitsuda's arrangements are any more complex than Uematsu's. He's just better >:D

Yes, but you don't share MY birthday, so neither he nor you are cooler than anyone. ;P

Anyway, listen to the Xenosaga soundtrack and tell me Mitsuda isn't more complex. There's only so much you can do with 8 channels so even the greatest of arrangers will be limited. I think if you compare PSX/PS2 soundtracks, you'll see a noticeable difference. But that could just be me and the fact that I like Mitsuda enough to declare him better at *something*. ;)

I kid, I kid. I love Mitsuda and think he's a wonderful composer, but Uematsu's music appeals to me more for not just it's awesomeness(and more my style) but for nostalgic reasons as well. I mean, it was because of him that I was introduced to the wonderful world of video game music/composition and he's also somewhat of an inspiration to me being that he was never formally taught and still made a name for himself. I don't think I'll ever be able to afford to be formally taught, and it's a gigantic pain in the ass to get into a decent music school in Canada. So it's kind of a nice to see an example of someone who has made an impact in video game music on talent alone. It kind of gives me hope that I may be able to make a career out of composing without having a degree behind my name. :)

Right now I'm in a Guns n Roses state of mind. Too bad I don't have any of their albums. Estranged and November Rain... awesome stuff.

(now taking bets on how long before loretian replies)