V3 Known Bugs and Issues
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I will keep a list of bugs and their status and any workarounds in this thread. Feel free to post below any bugs not listed and I will edit this post to include them.

HookTimer causes crashes on some systems
It seems to work fine on most people's systems (including mine) but crashes on others, which makes it hard to track down. This currently effects Timeless and the PepperII clone.
Status: Fixed in the next EXE.

verge.exe leaks memory and slows down after many successive launches
This is really a Windows problem, as the OS should not allow any process to leak memory. However there are things v3 can do to minimize it, which will be addressed later. Seems to vary from system to system a lot, suggesting it is a driver bug. On my own system, almost every app leaks memory, but at a pretty slow rate.
Status: Probably will never be completely eliminated, but steps will be taken to minimize it. However it is a lower priority item at this point.

AVI Playback problems
Yeah there are some problems that vary wildly from machine to machine. AVI playback is still a feature under development. We strongly recommend not using codecs like XVID/DIVX for the time being, if for no other reason than that not everyone has them installed.
Status: Still under active development.

Fullscreen flicker
On my system, the mouse cursor won't hide in fullscreen mode and the tray icons flicker through on top of the screen, which also results in a significant loss of FPS. zeromus has no such problems. This happens to me in a whole lot of fullscreen games, including 3d games, one of may reasons I much prefer to play in windowed mode. But I know there are games that don't so I know it can be corrected.
Status: Presently being actively researched by zeromus

Windowmode frame flicker
Sporadically, maybe every minute or so, a single frame will be off on some video cards. I have a dual monitor system with two video cards and on my Voodoo this never happens, but it does on my Geforce. This is NOT a blitter issue, its some problem in the directdraw code. Similar to the fullscreen issue, on my system there are a lot of other programs that do this, including some emulators such as GENS.
Status: Actively being researched. Most likely to be fixed with DirectX9 based ddraw code.
Workarounds: Turning down the hardware acceleration option generally fixes it, but its a pretty crappy workaround. The problem is fairly minor, so I suggest you just wait till we fix it.

VCC line number reported on errors are off
Yeah, yeah. Generally speaking if it not on the correct line, it will report the line+1 where the error occured. Usually because its reading the next token before it realizes that it doesnt make sense. It can be more than 1 line off with for loops.
Status: We will work to improve it, but it is a low priority item. It was like this through the entire history of V2, you should be used to it by now!

Some ITs and XMs do not play correctly in FMOD
FMOD plays all IT and XMs correctly that were generated by Impulse Tracker or FastTracker. Modplug Tracker saves both of these formats however sometimes does not adhere to the standard.
Status: An FMOD issue, not in our control
Workarounds: Generally the module can be corrected to work properly in FMOD. If you are not tracker savvy however, you can always convert it to an mp3 and play it that way in FMOD. We also hope that this issue will be directly addressed in the next version of FMOD.

Some modules do not loop in FMOD
Some modules intentionally do this. They are using order jump commands to loop silence at the end rather than actually ending.
Status: Not a bug.
Workarounds: This can only be fixed by editing the module. If you dont know how, jump on #vergehelp, someone can probably do it for you.

Posted on 2004-02-23 01:07:19 (last edited on 2004-04-15 00:20:28)


Some VCC string issues I've encountered:

  • There doesn't seem to be a way to include double quote characters or linebreaks in a string.

  • There are no functions for converting a character to its ascii value and vice versa... I think there used to be asc() and chr() functions for this purpose.

  • I found a bug that freezes V3, probably scanner-related:

    void Autoexec() { Exit('"'); }

  • Strings containing "%" are handled weirdly. Andy suggests that this is a printf glitch:

    void Autoexec() { Exit("%"); }

    Further weirdness:

    void Autoexec() { Exit("%d"); }

Edit: Oops, looks like most of these were fixed in the update. The scanner bug is still present, though, and there is still no asc() function.

Posted on 2004-02-23 17:20:33 (last edited on 2004-02-23 17:32:20)


// My crash list

int out_of_bounds[2];
int too_many_args(int a) {}
string empty = "";


struct crash { int me[0][1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]; }

// 951 characters or more will cause a crash
string too_long = "...";

void unbalanced_braces_1() { int"; } void"() {}
void unbalanced_braces_2() { int {; }

void autoexec() {
out_of_bounds[2] = 0; // fixed

#include crash" // fixed
#include "crash

Posted on 2004-02-24 02:15:33 (last edited on 2004-02-27 09:09:11)


I know Zeromus said it was fixed, and I'm loath to say that he's lying to me, but Random() is still generating the same sequence of random numbers every time I run a game. It's simple enough to work around (call Random() every time the screen updates while waiting for player input), but it still seems to be broken. Maybe it's just me.

EDIT: I wasn't aware that the fix hadn't actually been released yet. I'll just shut up then.

Posted on 2004-02-26 04:23:26 (last edited on 2004-02-26 07:09:06)


We havent released a new exe with the fix yet.

Posted on 2004-02-26 04:28:56


About Random(). Is there/will there be a seed variable you can set in VC for it? It would be handy for random dungeon games or something.

Posted on 2004-02-26 05:52:51


I'm not sure if this is a bug, but it seems that it is quite possible to get it stuck where you can only get out by resetting. If you have some code that is looping over and over only performing mathematical calculations, alt-X won't work. Alt-tab also fails to minimize, and the windows key just makes the windows mouse icon appear over Verge without actually letting you out.

See, I'm working on this random terrain generator, which has to iterate through a pair of nested for-loops (512x512), which is itself contained inside a while loop. The for-loops conduct calculations and set elements of a massive array based on the calculations, and the while loop only breaks when certain conditions are met. While working on this, it is very easy to misjudge the math and end up with an infinite loop.

Is there a way to make alt-X work no matter what?

Posted on 2004-02-26 22:15:05


I guess I never considered it that big of a deal because I always do all development in windowed mode and if VC goes into an infinite loop, I can just hit the 'X' button and it closes (eventually).

I should be able to fix tho... but it basically amounts to throwing UpdateControls in the timer routine. I suppose thats not so bad tho.

Posted on 2004-02-26 23:10:54


Having a period in your function name will cause a v3 to not compile your code.


void Place.Portrait()


The above will not work, but it did in V2. What's the deal?

Posted on 2004-02-27 02:38:33


the period has to be parsed as punctuation now because it's used for structs.

Posted on 2004-02-27 03:18:59


BTW, whenever I run verge 3 and then open a full-screen dos prompt (or any full-screen text mode thing), when I switch back to windows, it crashes (in "oldwinapp" or something I think). I use win98se. This could be a memory leak issue or a video driver issue rater then a bug in verge 3 though.

Posted on 2004-02-28 05:29:54


In the most recent version released, I have noticed that it seems that playsound will cause sound effects to loop automatically.

I'm not 100% sure that this is a bug, because stopsound will still cause it to stop. But it is very hard to make stopsound stop the sound effect at exactly the end of the sound, since other complexities of whatever is going on at the same time make it difficult to figure out when to trigger stopsound. I'd have to add a lot more extraneous code to get it to work right. If this is how it is intended to work, I really would suggest adding in "loopsound" to do automatically looped sounds, and leaving playsound to stop at the end of the .wav file.

Posted on 2004-03-03 21:55:19


Technetium: Yeah, it's kind of odd, because in effect, PlaySound is no different than PlayMusic because of the looping. There should be a argument to specify whether the sound should be looping or not. This CAN be worked around now, but it would require yet another hijak of the render loop or a hooktimer.

Posted on 2004-03-04 20:32:17


I've started working on a V3 remake of my scorched earth clone. Much of my work is just translating existing code from the V2 version, so the system.vc has grown quite large already. As it has grown large, a few problems have appeared.

1. It randomly crashes. This seems to only happen when it begins executing a function from within the autoexec function. I cannot find a cause for the problem. For example, if I load up the game and choose to go the "options" screen from the title menu, it might crash right there. Or it might go on ahead to the option screen. But the important thing is that there is nothing different in terms of what the player is doing either time, and there are no random numbers generated yet which would cause this sort of unpredictability. This strongly resembles a problem I encountered frequently in Verge 2.

2. Once my system.vc got beyond some unknown length, it has started acting really flaky. It no longer recognizes my function calls unless the functions are defined chronologically in the file before they are called. I have tested this by simply cutting a problem function and pasting it above the code that tries to run it. It worked fine when I did that. As with the other problem, this is something that I remember running into a lot in Verge 2.

Posted on 2004-03-07 04:34:01


1. Regarding random crashes, are you using HookTimer? If so, did Timeless work for you? There is a known bug in HookTimer.. but only on certain systems, and none of the systems are ones that any devs have access to at this time, which presently makes it tough to debug. Interestingly, hookretrace works just fine on these systems.... so its not a VC-reentrancy issue... its something to do with the TIMER. Which concerns me.

2. Two questions, first, are you using the most recently released EXE? Secondly... How big are we talking about? If you would, post the v3.log text, which will say how many ints, strings, structs, functions, and lines were compiled... also, post me the length (in bytes) of your system.vc, as well as the length (in bytes) of system.xvc. That should give me an idea of where the problem lies.

Posted on 2004-03-07 06:19:06


1. I have not touched either hook function yet.

2. I think I may have jumped the gun on this one. I think it was more the case of the compiler giving me the wrong error, because I later found a missing bracket in one of the functions that the compiler wasn't catching. I have not had this problem with further functions I've created.

3. Is the thing I mentioned about playsound a few posts earlier a bug or in fact the way it is meant to work?

Posted on 2004-03-07 07:01:35


Sorry, I didnt see the sound effects thing earlier.

Uhh.. as far as I know - you're using the FMOD build, right? Sound effects do not automatically loop, we certainly don't do this intentionally. I have tested the SFX in our development on Sully and they seem to work fine.

What I imagine is happening is possibly that if some loop information is embedded in the WAV, then FMOD is obeying it. I'm sure its possible for me to explicitly set it to not-loop, and I'll take a look at that. If you can, send me a WAV that automatically loops on IRC sometime and I'll test it.

As far as the random crashing goes.... I havent experienced this outside of HookTimer, so, I guess, just let me know if you manage to narrow this down or get any more information on it. I personally have left timeless running for about a 16 hour period without crashing so, whatever it is, its not really random, its specific to some thing that you're using that probably no one else is. ^_^

Posted on 2004-03-07 07:15:37


That's neat, you can set a wav file to automatically loops? I didn't know that was possible, because I though that wav files only contained sound data. Is the looping data stored in a header? That info would help tremendously.

Posted on 2004-03-07 10:23:07


I have tested four different sound effects for the same function. Two of them loop over and over, and two do not. They are all 8-bit, mono-, and non-looping (according to Modplug Tracker, anyways). maybe there is some extraneous information put in the file by the program that made it that is somehow being misread as loop instructions.

I'll look for you on IRC so I can send you one of the ones that doesn't work.

About the crashing... it's not really random. It will only happen when a function is being called from within the autoexec function (mainly when you make a menu choice on the title screen, as two of those choices call other functions). But it happens sometimes and not other times.

Posted on 2004-03-08 22:40:57


I've been having this other problem, and I didn't identify it as being Verge related until now. I think this is related to the memory leak issue, but I'm not sure. I've noticed that after running Verge a couple times, if I use any program to attempt to access "My Computer" or "My Desktop" it locks up. This has never happened without running Verge first, so I'm pretty sure it is related.

Posted on 2004-03-16 23:19:15

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