Toen
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Quote:Originally posted by Interference22
I'm *still* waiting for Geist, Baiten Kaitos and Giftpia!
Uhh yeah we're waiting for those too, you crazy briton!
Posted on 2004-08-19 07:37:25
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resident
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What about Mario and Luigi on the GBA? That's pretty damn Mario RPG like. Even if it IS a commercial game.
Posted on 2004-08-19 10:50:50
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Zip
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Quote:Originally posted by Tatzen
i dont think smrpg even really had a z-axis. it was just a rotated x and y axis
If this is right, you could use RenderMap() then RotScale(). Unless my maths is more forgotten than I thought, you want the height = width * tan30 to get isometric. Of course whether the map would look like shit at the end of this, or if it would be anywhere near qyick enough, I cannot tell you.
Zip
Posted on 2004-08-19 13:07:39
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Omni
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Yeah, the map would look pretty disgusting. Thanks for that angle though :)
What you need to do is render the map layer completely rotated, and then rotate the entity positions but not the actual entity graphics. It will require you to render the map and the entities separately. Not impossible but...quite difficult.
Posted on 2004-08-19 16:45:41
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blues_zodiakos
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If that was the case, I would have probably done it myself a while ago. :D Unfortunately, mario has the ability to jump. That complicates things considerably.
You wouldn't even have to do anything special to render the map, all of those tiles can be prerotated in maped. For places where the tiles didn't match up (because of transitions from one tile type to another) you could just use fancy 2nd layer work.
It would be easy to fake the z-axis if there were no overlapping places on the map, but, at least in SMRPG, there were many, many places where a block was hovering in the middle of nowhere, and you could go under it as well as jump on it. That's tough to fake.
But hey, as I said, if anyone can come up with a simpler way, I'd be more than glad to team up with them to make a sequel. My XSI and Maya are itching for it.
Posted on 2004-08-19 16:46:20
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Zip
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I *think* I have a way of doing this, as long as there are limited (as 3 max) numbers of different valid z-heights for terrain. First ALL entities will need to be HookEntityRender()-ed - but that was a given from my last post anyway, you can't rot ents and expect them to look sensible. Also, working out their positions on the screen in iso WILL be a pain in the ass. Then you should be able to have mulitple E layers (if you set the .rstring yourself - I've done this with retrace) and it will call your function every layer. Then you need to check the current z of your entity, work out if it should be in the current layer, and blit it if so.
Zip
Posted on 2004-08-19 17:51:40
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Gayo
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I'm doing that very thing for an unrelated project right now, actually.
Posted on 2004-08-19 18:51:59
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geronimo
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there's more than just different z-heights though... sometimes there is more than one floor, if you know what i mean *wink*
Posted on 2004-08-19 23:07:34
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Interference22
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Quote:Originally posted by Toen
Quote:Originally posted by Interference22
I'm *still* waiting for Geist, Baiten Kaitos and Giftpia!
Uhh yeah we're waiting for those too, you crazy briton!
Yeah, and I'll be still waiting for them long after you've got 'em, you lucky git.
Posted on 2004-08-19 23:15:10
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Zip
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Quote:Originally posted by geronimo
there's more than just different z-heights though... sometimes there is more than one floor, if you know what i mean *wink*
Makes no difference. That's something for your code to worry about, not the renderer.
Zip
Posted on 2004-08-20 02:34:29
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Kreplyn
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Cool as long as anyone is willing to make an SMRPG clone i'd be willing to help! Of course i need to master Verge code and all of the other hoo-haw... hmm lol. SMRPG was a great game and i loved it. It was soo cool how the BS worked and everything (BS hah) it was also cool not because of Culex (which was kinda cool) but also because of the extra minigames. So it's not so bad if you add in a minigame or two... and ill try and look for the game... it looked really cool. Plus you know how if you look at the stats when in a battle you sometimes see one for the characters blinking everyonce in a while. They did the same in this game... keep ya posted.
Posted on 2004-08-20 03:00:29
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blues_zodiakos
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I could probably do quite a bit of the modeling and rendering if someone were to make such a game... they didn't really look that difficult to do to me. Of course, that's assuming you weren't going to use sprite rips.
Posted on 2004-08-20 04:09:16
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Tatzen
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SMRPG, from a rendering standpoint, does not at all have a z-axis. it is isometric. isometric does not have a z-axis. its just a different way of doing 2d tiles. it has some fancy things like jumping and crap to give the illusion of 3d, but is most certainly very 2 dimensional.
Posted on 2004-08-20 08:18:18
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vecna
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Landstalker for the genesis is a 2d isometric game that quite definitively has a Z axis. Of course, doing 3d jumping in a 2d isometric environment is actually fairly disorienting and hard.
Posted on 2004-08-20 13:21:34
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Zip
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Yeah, I was gonna mention landstalker as something you definately couldn't do in verge. Just given SMRPG a couple of hours play:
-It's easy. Too easy.
-Not only could to make it in verge, you could do a much better job.
-There's only two map planes. Objects you can jump on top of are clearly part of a different layer in the game.
-Much of the z-ness is actually quite badly implimented, game tends to be unsure of what you are in front of/behind and the jump is awkward.
-The integration between battle screen and platforms is poor, I'd at least expect a different starting condition if I jump on their head compared to them ambushing me.
-The battle screen is ugly. Also, the layers are badly done - see the underwater battles. All the sprites are behind the 'water' layer, but weapons are in front.
-Doing the diagonal move natively in verge would require: 1) Vec to impliment diagonal movement. 2) Vec to impliment 30deg as an option as well as 45deg
-The need for jump probably means you can't do it natively anyway.
Zip
Posted on 2004-08-20 14:42:04
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Omni
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What if Jumping really doesn't affect the actual map position at all, it just changes layers?
Set a jump flag for an entity when it jumps. While it jumps, it is on the other layer, and its Blit is offset by y height of the jump, depending on the time. When time is over, height is again normal and the entity is back on the normal layer.
Posted on 2004-08-20 15:17:36
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blues_zodiakos
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I actually pondered doing when I first started thinking about it, because I thought that's how the game sees it. But the platforms you can walk under screwed me up. The problem, I think, is obstructions. If we had multiple obstruction layers that you could turn on/off at will, this would almost be too easy.
Posted on 2004-08-20 17:03:05
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Kreplyn
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Hmm... I smell an idea!
Posted on 2004-08-21 01:13:34
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Omni
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Assume the tile itself is an obstruction. If there's a layer for the tops of houses, new floors, etc, obviously anything the player could reach by a jump, then for the sake of simplicity, assume it's obstructed and don't let the player fall (If GetTile() > 0 or something).
Or, you could create a layer obstruction grid array thing...more work, similar result. I like the first one.
Posted on 2004-08-21 04:55:25 (last edited on 2004-08-21 04:55:26)
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Kreplyn
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So... can we do it?
Posted on 2004-08-23 05:01:01
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